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-   -   United States Second Presidential Debate (http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=186543)

Arkaelis Oct 17 '12 7:36am

United States Second Presidential Debate
 
I'm sure many of you witnessed the debate, and I'm quite sure that many of you will agree that President Obama performed much better this time around. He was far more energetic, far more passionate, but perhaps most of all, far more confrontational. I'd also like to say that Candy Crowley did a far better job of moderation than poor Lehrer did.

A lot of points were discussed, including the economy (Of course.), fuel costs, women's rights, gun control, immigration, education, foreign affairs with a specific focus on Libya and the current administration's handling of the attacks.

Again, on economics, Governor Romney's supposed "Five Point Plan" comes into the forefront, and again, we receive absolutely no details about it. One truly wonders if he even has a plan at all, beyond what President Obama states is a "One Point Plan", with the only objective being to "make sure the folks at the top play by a different set of rules". Again, the idea that the math doesn't add up is brought up, and once again, Romney assures people that it does and this is what he does. With absolutely no examples of what the specifics of the plan are.

On the subject of Libya, Governor Romney attacks the way President Obama handled the situation, only to be met by an angry President Obama stating that he and his team do not take kindly to accusations of misleading and playing politics during a time of national security. He also accepts responsibility, even after the moderator gave him the chance to pass the blame to Hillary Clinton, which was, at least for me, refreshing to see. In a world where there's little accountability in politics, President Obama states that he was ultimately responsible.

He then proceeded to criticize Governor Romney trying to turn national security into a political point. Romney countered by saying that Obama took too long to tell the public it was a terrorist attack, but President Obama and, indeed, Candy Crowley informed Romney that the president had used the term "acts of terror" the day after the incident in the Rose Garden. Fox News, of course, had a different interpretation of the events, saying that Obama was clearly talking about the attacks of 9/11/2001, despite him talking about losing four more Americans. I will inject my own personal bias here and wonder out loud why Fox News cannot even stay in the same objective reality that the rest of us are in.

Other important highlights in the debate that perhaps don't deserve as much description:
  • Mitt Romney wants to cut Planned Parenthood funding, but wants people to have children in wedlock only. To prevent gun violence.
  • President Obama once again talks about the "money saved from ending the wars", but that money isn't saved, it's just not borrowed. We didn't pay for the wars. We can't just spend that money on other projects and say it's the money saved from the war.
  • Romney states that women have special needs in the workplace and might need to go home and cook dinner for their families. He also did NOT endorse women having the same salary as men.
  • Over the next few days, I'm fairly certain you'll see some fact checking from both sides. It probably won't be pretty.
  • Obama finally dropped the 47% bomb, directly after Romney put his chin out for it. Bad form to give him that 47% line for a last word, in my opinion.
  • Jill Stein, the Green Party presidential candidate, and her running mate were arrested outside the debate grounds, after they were denied access. I suppose corporate America can't deal with there being more than two voices heard in the "political discourse". She held an impromptu press release, calling the debate a "mockery of democracy".
  • Several members of the Party for Socialism and Liberation (My own party.) were at the site, protesting the lack of third party presence in the debates, but there was no media coverage of it.

Discuss.

Wippit Guud Oct 17 '12 11:31am

Here's a fun one for Mitt:

1. One of his major issues is that North American become energy independent. Which includes bring oil in from Canada
2. A second issue is that he want to be tough with China

Problem: Canada's oil companies are being taken over by China. Citation given

silveroak Oct 17 '12 1:15pm

Romney failed, and spent his time illustrating that he didn't think he should have to play by the rules that were agreed upon in the debate- the same rules the POTUS followed. Apparently he thinks he owns the debates. nevertheless, he was set down like the petulant child he is.

Powderhorn Oct 17 '12 1:32pm

My opinions on how the debate went fairly closely match this opinion piece says.

In a nut shell, both guys were jerks, so that won't really matter in the end. Both of them were constantly shouting over each other. Both of them had good points, though Romney could have used stronger attacks in a couple of his points, and in the end, both sides will and have claimed victory.

Three weeks out from the election is still a life time, but if Romney does a good job of hammering Obama on his record of things getting worse, not better, and many of the disappointed democrats simply don't show up to vote at the polls, I suspect Romney will actually take the White House.

Solaris Oct 17 '12 2:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkaelis (Post 6194867)
He then proceeded to criticize Governor Romney trying to turn national security into a political point. Romney countered by saying that Obama took too long to tell the public it was a terrorist attack, but President Obama and, indeed, Candy Crowley informed Romney that the president had used the term "acts of terror" the day after the incident in the Rose Garden.

Yeah, about that...
Link.
Obama's claim there is pretty swishy. Evidently, the moderator did fairly poorly on fact-checking them.

silveroak Oct 17 '12 2:15pm

The facts are however things are better. Not anywhere near where we would like them to be, but when Obama took office teh economy was in free fall with no sign the bottom was near, we were fighting a contantly expanding war on terror with nothing to show for it but more debt and more troops in hostile countries, and health care costs threatening to overwhelm what was left of the economy.
Obamacare has reigned in the health care costs signifigantly, Bin Lauden is dead and the war on terror is wrapping up, and the now romney is trying to hammer Obama that the economy isn't growing fast enough- quite a reversal from how fast it was shrinking when he took office. Romney's problem is that while he wants to talk about how Obama has a record now, that record is actually pretty good. he wants to compare it to teh turn arround for the Reagan recession, but that was a much smaller recession. A better comparison would be the great depression, and with regards to that Obama has brought us through as much recovery in 4 years as required a decade before.

Silent Hunter UK Oct 17 '12 3:17pm

Worth pointing out that in the UK where we implemented wholesale spending cuts and an income tax cut on the richest people, we're now in a double-dip recession with 7.9% unemployment, a higher rate than the last Labour government - in fact every Labour government since the war.

Tedronai Oct 17 '12 3:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK (Post 6195450)
Worth pointing out that in the UK where we implemented wholesale spending cuts and an income tax cut on the richest people, we're now in a double-dip recession with 7.9% unemployment, a higher rate than the last Labour government - in fact every Labour government since the war.

Yeah, but the United States is a special snowflake.

Wippit Guud Oct 17 '12 3:55pm

This is the place to put this... anyone who has ever said Fox News isn't so pro-Romney and Anti-Obama... I present to you the transscript for the Second US Presidential Debate.

And call your attention to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by transcript
CROWLEY: Governor Romney, the question is about assault weapons, AK-47s.

ROMNEY: Yeah, I'm not in favor of new pieces of legislation on -- on guns and taking guns away or making certain guns illegal. We have

(AUDIO GAP)

OBAMA: because I do believe that if our young people have opportunity, then they're less likely to engage in these kind of violent acts.

Yes... Fox News removed Romney's answer from the official transcript.

Wippit Guud Oct 17 '12 4:01pm

Huh, they were quick to "fix" that. Glad I quoted it.


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