Hi. This is my first post here but im at the end of my rope as far as researching. I am a broken in DM that wanted my group of friends to finally get into some cool higher lvl stuff (the ppl that used to DM went off to college and arent around as much and the highest we got to was six.) So I have my players working toward freeing the chalice of heriouness from the dispater (or the city of Diz on the second level of baator, which is the lawful hell where devils reside.) and they are going in while lvl 8 and there are 5 of them. Now what i need help with is the fact there is very little info on the chalice and the only thing i know for sure is that the chalice is heriouness's daughter and shes in the black tower in the city of diz...thats it... thats all i really need i know but if there is any info that any one else can throw my way i would appreciate. Also any info on zariel the EX ruler of avernus would be appreciated as im using her too. I have the fiendish codex II, and the other books that mention the chalice in 3.5/0. thank you for taking the time to read this far.

At lvl 8? Isn't stealing things (people) from hell more a task for the 25th level characters?

Only if you're stealing it violently and from one of the Archdevils personally.
There's plenty of stealing to be done from low-level devils.

I was exaggerating for effect. Still. Level 8? Would last less than that many minutes in the quest as described by the OP.

ive actually been looking into and ive been throwing them oppurtunites to get magic items and such and i created my own template which i offered to them and as far as i kno 3 out of the 5 will have adjustments (nothing crazy like a rakshasa's plus 7) and ive boon looking through for demons/devils to fight since they will be going through through the first layer which is a eternal battlefield for demons and devils and they will have to travel through the city without drawing attention to themselves. There will be strong fights, they may run into something easy, and there will be things they might have to run from but like i said i did want to finally have me and my group of friends to get into the higher stuff we never seemed able to get to and this is the first thing falling into that category that i wrote. oh and i forgot to write in the original post that it wont just be the 5 of them for the first layer so that would take some of the stress lol.

Sometimes a small group can evade notice in places where a larger group would simply be meat for the grinder. If they don't have the brute force to pull this off (which at that level, they won't), they're going to need stealth and guile to even survive, let alone succeed.

The FC2 mentions Zariel as the source of some of Bel's power, and of the fireballs that feature so prominently on Avernus.

Dis is pretty well detailed in FC2; the whole "cannot be navigated by nondevils" makes the proposed adventure questionable in its sanity (beyond sending low/mid-level PCs to Hell).

Level adjustments are almost always a Bad Idea for PCs, especially at low levels (unless you allow LA buyoff).

Given the organization of Hell's inhabitants, a simple imp could escape the party and provide more powerful devils with the party's location. In order to pass to Dis, the party will have to pass in front of Tiamat's lair, something even high-level characters might have difficulty doing. They will have difficulty running from something like a squad of barbazu, an erinyes, bezekiras, or imps. If they encounter a cornugon or pit fiend, there is no way for them to avoid a TPK, short of swearing a blood pact that they will serve the devils and return to the mortal plane to advance the agenda of Baator.

Unless the party is already Lawful Evil, this adventure should probably end within a half hour of them reaching Avernus.



Edit: A more suitable location for relatively low-level planar adventurers would be Outland or the Astral Plane (watch out for those astral dreadnaughts, though!). The Astral Plane can take characters just about anywhere, so you can move them to the Lower Planes when they're ready. By following the Styx, they can move from one plane to another, if they're brave enough.

Ya I have looked over this ideal a few times now. And honestly this is just completely un-doable as is at level 8. Or even 18 really. Unless you.

#1: Take it Much easier on them then a DM ever should.
#2: Cheepen the entire plain. Which I think is a giant Disservice to devils as a whole.

But I mean your the DM, You could very well make most daemons as tough as goblins. Make them all blooding morons or give the team Extremely powerful equipment. (The third on wont stop a TpK it will just delay it)

I have seen allot of GM's and Games that Ether Lower or Raise a group of enemy's to the group should not be facing to the needed level. (Level 25 epic gnolls in Neverwinter Nights 2 Comes to mind)

But this is just lazy DMing.
Look if you want to do this ideal my suggestion would be.

#1: Start the Characters at a higher level.
#2: Put some Adventure in the way before they get to Baator or any other place. (To get them to higher level)
#3: Pick a les... Suicidal location to start with.

And besides if you want your players to get into some higher level stuff. Why Send them at low-mid level?

ha ha, you sound like me. Ok, you are having your characters dive into something they aren't ready for yet. Here are some options:

1. Throw obstacles in the way of getting where they need to be until they are much higher level. Throw as much xp into encounters as you can without killing your characters or cheating on their behalf.

2. Throw in a hook that explains how they are able to do this at current level. (For instance, perhaps your characters are the incarnates of previously famous heroes and retain some of the abilities they used to have under certain circumstances like changing planes or reaching the brink of death.)

3. Have them complete this task through a large amount of "divine intervention" then later reveal that the whole thing was actually an illusion designed to test their morality or some such nonsense.

Anyway as far as your research is concerned you have some fairly obscure things to dig up and chances are if you haven't found it yet, it might not exist. Try contacting the old DM's to see if they have any notes that were forgotten on the subject or simply improvise anything you can't find within reason. For instance this Chalice they are going to obtain seems pretty well hidden, perhaps there is a good reason, maybe it is dangerous, powerful, or very valuable (monetarily, or sentimentally)