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Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Batman Shooting

 
Doesn't feel like reading the eleven pages of this thread so far, just want to give my 2 coppers.

Perhaps the guy had his reasons. I don't wanna hear them. I just think this guy is an a$$hole, and saying this is an insult for all a$$holes in the world. Listening to his reasons will just give him more importance than he deserves.

I'm usually against capital sentence, but he can have me revise my priorities.

You don't shoot people for fun, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Silverbane View Post
You probably missed my second post on that, above.
It was just another list incomplete and drawn from selected press reports. The request was for statistics to back up what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plugsy View Post
It was just another list incomplete and drawn from selected press reports. The request was for statistics to back up what you said.
That was as close as I care to come to doing so, my statement having been an anecdote (ie, "I have noticed that...") rather than one purporting to be a statistical study. (ie, "87% of statistics are made up on the spot.").

Oh, you mean a useless statement for the purpose of debate. I'll proceed to ignore it then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
Oh, you mean a useless statement for the purpose of debate. I'll proceed to ignore it then.
Yes. As I said, I am no debater, master or otherwise. You may choose to ignore anything that I say, if you wish.

The one thing I do tend to notice about places where mass shootings take place is that they tend to be workplaces, whether for actual jobs or colleges. A lot of mass shooters are disgruntled ex-workers or students. Otherwise, mass shootings are most effective wherever you tend to have a lot of people crammed into a tiny place... which also tend to be places that don't allow firearms. I'm just not sure the correlation is necessarily between mass shootings and no carrying of firearms allowed, as it is between mass shootings and places with large amounts of people.

Then again, I'm hardly an expert on concealed carry laws, my state only recently has allowed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
Also, is your argument for gun ownership that they should have to go through USMC (I believe you've said you were in the Marines, correct me if I'm wrong) basic training Solaris?
Army, and no, not even close. The relevant parts can be covered in a couple of afternoons. Hell, I could do it in a good-sized backyard with a machinegun (which may or may not be firing blanks, I'll never tell), smoke grenades, some barbed wire, and a garden hose. I'm not interested in teaching them how to shoot - most people actually are pretty decent shots. I'm interested in teaching them how to handle themselves under stress, and the way to do that is to stress them.
And frankly, if you're getting a concealed-carry you'd better be prepared to use it in this kind of a situation. Stress shoots, marksmanship practice (and training, if you're a bad shot to begin with), weapons familiarization, escalation of force procedures, target positive identification, the works. If you aren't prepared to do that, then you should not own a firearm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriel View Post
Your military service notwithstanding, I'm not convinced that having a shootout in a public place is a very good idea.
It's only a shootout if I miss. I don't miss. It's a hell of a lot better than this guy getting to do whatever he wants unopposed. If he hadn't jammed (which tells me he's a moron who read too many Tom Clancy novels in lieu of actual training or experience) he would have killed a lot more people. I don't know about you, but I'd rather count on my own ability to negotiate a termination of hostilities than on his equipment failing him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phuse View Post
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that. I was a good shot before I joined the military. And I'm pretty sure I'm not a
Special
snowflake. I am pretty positive that there are people out there who have never had any sort of formal training that could out shoot most police and military personnel.
+1.
Honest, we're not supermen. We're just ordinary folks who happen to have a better understanding of our capabilities than most people. That's why I have exactly zero patience for arguments which hinge upon the common citizen being incapable of protecting himself because of some mythical super-powered police or military protecting them. The only difference between me and the next nerd is the training I've had and some of the cool stories I have. That's it.

I must have missed the part where this turned from a discussion of current events into a dick-waving contest over who's the most adept killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
It hasn't. We're discussing the validity of self-defense.
Really? Because all I'm hearing from you is a lot of self-absorbed chest-thumping that does nothing to progress the discussion at all unless everyone agrees that we should all be fully armed and combat trained gunfighters.


For instance, here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
I can make that shot. I know, I've seen me do it. Like Phuse said... their face hardly ever wears body armor.
Marksmanship is not hard - it's just that people never really do it. Once you get a few stress shoots in you, you'll be blasting faces off at close range like a pro.
...where you seem confused by your own self-praise as to why a headshot in difficult circumstances may actually be difficult, and then you seem to be delighting in the ability to "blast faces off at close range."


Then here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
It's only a shootout if I miss. I don't miss. It's a hell of a lot better than this guy getting to do whatever he wants unopposed. If he hadn't jammed (which tells me he's a moron who read too many Tom Clancy novels in lieu of actual training or experience) he would have killed a lot more people. I don't know about you, but I'd rather count on my own ability to negotiate a termination of hostilities than on his equipment failing him.
...where you seem to feel it's important to point out that you could have done the job better than this moron did.


Then here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Honest, we're not supermen. We're just ordinary folks who happen to have a better understanding of our capabilities than most people. That's why I have exactly zero patience for arguments which hinge upon the common citizen being incapable of protecting himself because of some mythical super-powered police or military protecting them. The only difference between me and the next nerd is the training I've had and some of the cool stories I have. That's it.
...where you fail to realize that no one is calling you "superman," and that most of us aren't armed to the teeth because we choose not to be, not because we are afraid to carry or some nonsense like that. It is a perfectly legitimate stance to say I feel like carrying a gun makes things more dangerous for me, rather than less.

Someone else in this thread mentioned Zimmerman, and he's a perfect example. Had he not been carrying, he wouldn't have been in half the crap he's in right now. Yeah, he may have taken a good old-fashioned ass-whoopin', but he damn sure wouldn't be up on murder charges, and frankly, he deserves it for being irresponsible.

In Colorado, unless a person was an expert marksman with perfect vision in less than perfect conditions, nerves of steel and lightning fast reflexes (which other than self-proclaimed super-soldiers like you, are a fairly rare breed), then drawing a weapon and standing up in that theater would have gotten him killed lickety-split. So much for self defense.





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