Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Batman Shooting

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Well, I said nothing about its quality, only that it's better than "I don't believe you because I don't believe you". Responding to everything with "Citation needed" doesn't do much for a discussion.
Which is why I do not. You are very aggravating, by the way. You seem very determined to belittle me.

Quote:
How do you know it's just laymen and hobbyists? I just might happen to be an expert in some of the fields we're discussing. Some of these others might happen to be experts, too.
What would you consider a 'serious' argument?
I don't. Most people are not laymen in a specific field we might be talking about, though. More importantly, if someone argues that they are experts, I would like something to back that up. Not really that they are experts, but what they are saying is true and could actually be said by such an expert.

Quote:
So rather than contribute - either by providing something to support or by something to refute - you're just going to respond with a prettied-up "Citation needed" to his assertion, and insist you have no reason to believe him despite having no reason not to believe him. Huh.
I suppose it is a 'prettied-up "Citation needed"', yes, because this I genuinly felt this needed citation. I suppose the resons I felt it was in need of citation, was because it was a fairly serious claim, and one purportedly made by a proffesional. Seems sesible to me.

Not wishing to take sides, but people can say whatever the hell they like but if they're going to present things as facts I either want citations or a big ass disclaimer. After all this is the internet and I have a certificate showing me to be an expert in everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
Which is why I do not. You are very aggravating, by the way. You seem very determined to belittle me.
And you're annoying me. "Citation needed" is one of the most obnoxious things I've seen people post, 'cause I only see it when people have nothing to say to refute what someone has to say, but they disagree with what they've said. You evidently have no particular logic or reason to dispute his statements (you've admitted as much) beyond general (and healthy) skepticism. But rather than leaving it be, you felt the need to post a requirement for a citation on his professional opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
I don't. Most people are not laymen in a specific field we might be talking about, though. More importantly, if someone argues that they are experts, I would like something to back that up. Not really that they are experts, but what they are saying is true and could actually be said by such an expert.
You're a layman. How would you recognize something an expert would say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
I suppose it is a 'prettied-up "Citation needed"', yes, because this I genuinly felt this needed citation. I suppose the resons I felt it was in need of citation, was because it was a fairly serious claim, and one purportedly made by a proffesional. Seems sesible to me.
If he had citation, then he would have posted it. (Really, who has online proof of their degree?) It's essentially an opinion and to be taken on the merits of the argument, not on the basis of what links we can post.
Frankly, I would be... annoyed if someone were to sit there and demand I prove I'm in my line of work. Is it really so astounding that someone would have a degree in criminal justice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogie View Post
Not wishing to take sides, but people can say whatever the hell they like but if they're going to present things as facts I either want citations or a big ass disclaimer. After all this is the internet and I have a certificate showing me to be an expert in everything.
Why would you need a disclaimer? This is the internet. It's not that I object to skepticism, it's that I object to someone wasting the time to post up "Citation needed" to something that is obviously his opinion. Professional or not, take on the argument itself, not the person making the argument.
Honestly, it's like demanding that I put a "Caution, Hot" warning on a cup of coffee.

I agree it can be obnoxious, but equally, I might have enough knowledge in a topic (or be an eloquent enough bullshitter) that it seems like I know what I'm talking about. The rules are in place to stop people being able to simply state a 'fact' and prevent people with less knowledge from responding.

There's a reason we distinguish between facts and opinions and in this instance it comes across as 'I do this for a living, believe me' which means sod all on t'interwebs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogie View Post
I agree it can be obnoxious, but equally, I might have enough knowledge in a topic (or be an eloquent enough bullshitter) that it seems like I know what I'm talking about. The rules are in place to stop people being able to simply state a 'fact' and prevent people with less knowledge from responding.
Which is why I say to attack the argument rather than demand proof of expertise. I know enough idiotic experts that evidence of expertise itself is not in some certificate but in knowledge of the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogie View Post
There's a reason we distinguish between facts and opinions and in this instance it comes across as 'I do this for a living, believe me' which means sod all on t'interwebs.
Right, an opinion. I can't see needing any more disclaimer than what he gave. A fact comes with a source (and you're not going to find too many hard facts on the 'net). An opinion doesn't.

Did we really just spend well over two full pages on this thread debating the need for evidence on a forum where the rules quite clearly state that requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogie View Post
Not wishing to take sides, but people can say whatever the hell they like but if they're going to present things as facts I either want citations or a big ass disclaimer. After all this is the internet and I have a certificate showing me to be an expert in everything.
Which is why this forum used to have a reputation as being one of the few places to have a decent online discussion. This thread and some others recently have really lowered the standard for the forum. Closed whilst I review what action to take.




 

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