Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Sandy's political fallout

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercutio361 View Post
I don't advocate revolution, but I believe that eventually it will happen. And for the record, no I haven't been to war. That doesn't automatically negate my opinions though. That also doesn't mean I don't know what it's like to be stabbed or have a gun in my face or fired at me on more than one occasion.

I have no illusions that its glorious or what have you, but it's something every corrupt government will eventually succumb to, if it doesn't fall to another nation first. History is a broken record with nobody to nudge the needle.
No, it doesn't negate your opinion but it does make me question how well-considered it is. There's a world of difference between having encountered an act of violence and having been through the sheer devastation that is a civil war.

Furthermore (and this is the more important part), the government faction would win. The United States Army is very, very good at counterinsurgent warfare, and the three-letter-agencies are (contrary to popular opinion) likewise very good at it. By the end of the conflict, the people fighting for freedom would be, in the public perceptions, the villains - and their cause damned with them. They have done it with hostile countries. Doing it with America would be easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
No, it doesn't negate your opinion but it does make me question how well-considered it is. There's a world of difference between having encountered an act of violence and having been through the sheer devastation that is a civil war.

Furthermore (and this is the more important part), the government faction would win. The United States Army is very, very good at counterinsurgent warfare, and the three-letter-agencies are (contrary to popular opinion) likewise very good at it. By the end of the conflict, the people fighting for freedom would be, in the public perceptions, the villains - and their cause damned with them. They have done it with hostile countries. Doing it with America would be easy.
Agreed. Especially after Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military is very, very good at counter-insurgency. I think the only thing that would stop the Army from easily quelling any rebellion would be division within its own ranks, and I have no idea how likely that would be.

I don't advocate revolution, and I don't think it's inevitable that revolution will happen. I think that Karl Marx was a brilliant man, and I think that we are seeing a nation of haves and have-nots. But Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto before mass media was created to advertise away all of our complaints. The American people are now too complacent.

I believe that there can be a peaceful solution that will allow the working class to exist and allow the wealthy class to live comfortably. I just don't know how it's going to come about, to be honest. I know this is an unpopular thing to say, but I think a large part of it is uniting socialist parties into one strong socialist party here, with the sole issue being improving quality of life for the poor and working class.

Both parties constantly parrot about how government doesn't create jobs, but, you know what? Maybe it should. The infrastructure in this nation is absolutely awful. Why can't we create some WPAs to get things going? Why are prisoners fixing our roads instead? Rehabilitate the prisoner, give the working class man a job. Cut the corporatism out of our government and you might have something worth saving.

Also, can we look into green energy in a real way? We've got a climate crisis on our hands, and we're just not even looking at it. And those new jobs in green energy are going to need butts to fill them. It's expensive to build these jobs, but probably a little less expensive than throwing ourselves into war after war after war.

Lastly, in closing, thank you to any veterans or current members of the armed forces that serve so that I might be a coward and stay here where I'm mostly safe, and free to discuss armchair politics. I salute you with great respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkWren View Post
Agreed. Especially after Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military is very, very good at counter-insurgency. I think the only thing that would stop the Army from easily quelling any rebellion would be division within its own ranks, and I have no idea how likely that would be.
Straw polls suggest that the answers on whether or not we'd join rebel troops range from "No" to "Hell no", with the one
It was me, I can say that
crazy guy going "Maybe".
I wouldn't count much on the military. The majority of the guys who strongly object to the way this country is going, we're getting out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Straw polls suggest that the answers on whether or not we'd join rebel troops range from "No" to "Hell no", with the one
It was me, I can say that
crazy guy going "Maybe".
I wouldn't count much on the military. The majority of the guys who strongly object to the way this country is going, we're getting out.
Well, I guess part of it would depend on what the revolution is for, but yeah, my guess was that the military would stick together.

I don't know if it would matter. Any sort of political violence in America is not likely to be the sort where a group of people fight the army. It's more likely to be a situation where neighbors kill neighbors. If enough violence happens in spots it spreads to other spots. Will I sit there reading news of X on Y violence and look out my front window at my Dem neighbor without being concerned about my safety? Concerned enough to act first? That's likely the situation people would face in any sort of party line revolution in the USA.

That's exactly the sort of situation martial law was invented for. It also happens to be the sort of situation the US Army excels at containing. It won't start with the military, but it will end with the military.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That's exactly the sort of situation martial law was invented for. It also happens to be the sort of situation the US Army excels at containing. It won't start with the military, but it will end with the military.
This.And since neighbor is fighting neighbor, there are obviously some sort of sides here; the question is which one the military would join (hopefully people, and not zombies).

If the problems are isolated it might work. But they are not near big enough to police the whole country. They might be effective wherever they are, but not where they aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Straw polls suggest that the answers on whether or not we'd join rebel troops range from "No" to "Hell no", with the one
It was me, I can say that
crazy guy going "Maybe".
I wouldn't count much on the military. The majority of the guys who strongly object to the way this country is going, we're getting out.
Was there any distinction made between "joining rebel troops" and refusing to fire on American citizens?

I don't necessarily expect the US military to side with revolutionary citizenry, but I find myself hoping they'd insist on non-lethal ammunition as long as they weren't themselves being targeted by live rounds.




 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Blog   Myth-Weavers Status