Overpopulation - Page 15 - OG Myth-Weavers

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Overpopulation

 
And Radio-thermal generators have been in use for just as long, but the only economy to use them as a basis of power generation fell apart (Russia). Simply having been arround a while and past the development stage does not make something a foundation for an industry or program, any more than fuel cells and solar power are teh foundation of our current power grid. "we can do it" or even "we've been able to do it for a while" is not the same as "everyone is already doing it." Ocean going trips may not have been the norm, though realistically they were not hugging the coasts either- they stayed within sight of land- roughly 5 miles to a horizon, not within easy swimming distance, and were making long voyages which included bringing foor for overnight sailing (as opposed to say the ancient greeks who had to land every night)

Russia's economy had many more reasons to fall apart than its method of power generation.

What's your point? "We can do it, but everyone isn't already doing it, so we can't do it"?

And how is "Stayed within sight of land" not hugging the coast? You're trying to split hairs here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Russia's economy had many more reasons to fall apart than its method of power generation.

What's your point? "We can do it, but everyone isn't already doing it, so we can't do it"?

And how is "Stayed within sight of land" not hugging the coast? You're trying to split hairs here.
It's not splitting them, it's dividing them in half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
I no longer have the link with the citation (been a few days), but one of the pages I read quoted that the price for the voyage would've built 20 new Spanish homes. And I'm fairly sure they weren't referring to a 4-room bungalow or something, so these would be nice homes. Figure a nice home would probably go for $1 million today, so that gives us a figure of $20 million. At least using this as a reference, salaries that have vastly increases for laborers (and sailors) is taken into consideration.
I don't think sailors of those sort went by salaries in those days.

A salary is something most likely ordained under a contract - something that is rarely come across except in lawyer circles. Otherwise, it's just like your D&D adventuring group, except in real life - loot is split and extra 'wages' (or rations) are given out to keep the morale. Probably explains why Columbus was desperate to exploit whatever he could find, huh?

Even business, most of which was small (guilds were more of a union, weren't they? They didn't pay their members, just gave them certain powers over non-guildies), probably split the loot.

Quote:
I no longer have the link with the citation (been a few days), but one of the pages I read quoted that the price for the voyage would've built 20 new Spanish homes.
So that's the initial price + loot. Not to mention people could be easily swindled back then (we're going to India and over there you can rape and pillage all you like! *cough*). And as long as the queen of Spain isn't directly effected.

Granted, the same sort of swindling probably occurs today, it's just more coverable by law.

Sigh
I am saying that for it to be economically feasable to have an age of exploration it would need to be a *common* and *standard* method of spaceflight, not just "something we can do" The Vikings *could* sail to the Americas centuries before Columbus. They however never got to Asia, never establsihed a trade route, never established real colonies, because it was an epic undertaking for them, while for Columbus it was a matter of having teh courage to use the same technology everyone else was using differently.They didn't have to build a special ship, there were already plenty of those ships lying arround.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
Sigh
never establsihed a trade route, never established real colonies, because it was an epic undertaking for them
Please provide evidence that it was the difficulty of the crossing that prompted the vikings to not only abandon L'Anse aux Meadows but to refrain from further expeditions to north america, rather than being chiefly deterred by conflicts with the local peoples and amongst the norse population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
Please provide evidence that it was the difficulty of the crossing that prompted the vikings to not only abandon L'Anse aux Meadows but to refrain from further expeditions to north america, rather than being chiefly deterred by conflicts with the local peoples and amongst the norse population.
Simply looking at the map, it's nothing to sail from Greenland to Newfoundland. The Europe - Iceland - Greenland trip would be much worse. I don't believe it is the travel that caused them to leave. And I also don't think that was their only settlement, just the only one found and confirmed.

Reviving the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
Please provide evidence that it was the difficulty of the crossing that prompted the vikings to not only abandon L'Anse aux Meadows but to refrain from further expeditions to north america, rather than being chiefly deterred by conflicts with the local peoples and amongst the norse population.
The crossing wasn't difficult for them (or, it could be done, since they did it; I think it really was just the length of the journey and whether or not there was any more profit in going there than going to the main continent of europe). Vikings didn't have the technology to live off the land like Columbus most likely could (and I don't think even columbus established any permanent colonies - most european expeditions for the next hundred years were looting raids as well, albeit grander than anything vikings did - ie. the sacking of Tenochtitlan, which, I believe, was a walled city). Vikings weren't farmers, and if they could farm, they probably didn't do it very well - they were raiders.

Also, their armor was crappy, according to deadliest warrior (riveted maille, pffft; although 'the axeman cometh' on youtube, kinda speaks to how, in other ways, they were successful in warfare and how bad ass huscarls could be).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouRbkBAOGEw

That said, space will be a privately funded affair.

Why? All other exploration has been private! Columbus, the Vikings, Marco Polo... none had full government backing. Exploration is an individual journey - the government is a minor proxy to that.

Given the choice to make the arduous but not at all impossible journey to a land of open resources with unknown skraling defenders, most wealthy vikings would rather build and tax within the Europe they knew. The trade From Novgorod through to Iceland was strong. Anything gotten in the new world was still locked that far away. The vikings never got enough people to put their feet in the new world in any one place to make a real go of it. They never built enough infrastructure and industry there to make export back to Europe an enrichment factor for would-be rulers of the new world. Ergo, no real exodus, no real emphasis, and the matter of the new world was put into cold storage.





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