Is the Counter Charge maneuver from Tome of Battle viable against reach? - OG Myth-Weavers

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Is the Counter Charge maneuver from Tome of Battle viable against reach?

   
Is the Counter Charge maneuver from Tome of Battle viable against reach?

Ithamar and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum on this one, lol.

The question is the title really. Counter Charge, a maneuver from Tome of Battle, allows you to effectively neutralize a charge attack. My argument is that the maneuver isn't based on your own character actually attacking, its based on your opponent attacking you with a melee attack. The text doesn't even mention an attack in any way.

Thus the question being, if an opponent charges with a reach weapon and you don't have reach could you use this maneuver?

Range:Melee Attack

If you enemy never gets into the range of your melee attack, you do not fulfill the prerequisites of the maneuver so you don't even check what the rest of the text says.

Its like if you had readied an action to shocking grasp the guy charging you. If he never enters your melee attack range (AKA, threatened area), you just don't have enough range to attack him.

the DM in me says that unless you have reach equal to the distance between you and your opponent, then the maneuver would fail.

What that means, if your opponent has 10' reach, and you only have 5', then your maneuver could not work. On the other hand, if you have 25' reach opposed to the charger's 20' reach or even 25' reach, then yes, you could use the maneuver.

Yup. The range is "melee attack".

HOWEVER, I'd personally allow it to be "partially" successful. By which I mean the "sidestep" part. It's a two-effect maneuver. 1- evade incoming charge. 2- throw target off.

The latter part is, for all intents, a trip attack and should require proper contact range.

The former is a dodge, of sorts. And ought to still function. As far as I'm aware, it's entirely possible to avoid an attack from someone who you're not currently able to strike.


But Ithamar is right, as far as the RAW is concerned. But since when did D&D RAW ever obey logic, common sense, reality, or any understanding of how combat actually works?

+1 vote for TanaNari's interpretation. This seems to do RAI justice best. Evade the attack but suffer the effects of insufficient reach.

Well I checked (un)ofccial errata and there was no mention of counter charge than I checked FAQ (of ToB) on wizards site but only question about counter charge was about 2 square move. However on tome of battle itself at page 45 under range-melee attack it clearly states maneuvre effects any creature you successful melee attack against and you can't make a melee attack on a creature that is not in your threatened range no matter what is flavor of power is.

On the other hand nothing prevents you using this counter with a polearm (or just for laugh with spiked chain) and gain reach either but flavor of maneuvre (or setting sun discipline) shouldn't let this either if we are going out of RAW and get into RAI.





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