Pay Equality and Relationships - Page 6 - OG Myth-Weavers

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Pay Equality and Relationships

 
Perhaps you have some evidence you can give to back up this rather wide reaching and dismissive statement?

Many of the current streams? It really seems more typical of several of the streams from the 1970's. Of course it also depends on whether you are talking college campus feminism or real world feminism...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElfenLied View Post
This sums up everything that is wrong with many of the current streams of feminism. Equal treatment when it suits them, but preferential treatment otherwise.
Look, I wrote that post at eight in the morning when I wake up at seven forty-five. In all of my posts thus far I've been advocating equal benefits for men and women, but if you want to pick on one example of poor word choice to dismiss every other point and argument I've made, then you're not actually engaging in honest discussion. You're just being smug.

Instead of generalizing and dismissing, if you can, kindly specify where you think feminists want 'preferential treatment' and we can address that in the conversation.

Edit: Further evidence that does not support the assumption that lower wages are due to maternity leave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US...by_age.001.png
Source: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2008.pdf

The smallest pay gap during 2008 was for the ages most likely to go on maternity leave, ages 20-34.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilobyte View Post
Look, I wrote that post at eight in the morning when I wake up at seven forty-five. In all of my posts thus far I've been advocating equal benefits for men and women, but if you want to pick on one example of poor word choice to dismiss every other point and argument I've made, then you're not actually engaging in honest discussion. You're just being smug.
Next time, then, instead of just casually dismissing a comment on your post as being 'pedantic', just correct your 'poor word choice'. Because that was not a minor, overlook-able error in a discussion of gender equity. It may have been an easy mistake to make, but it's a big one in terms of the message it sends to those that catch on.


People misspeak. It happens. Just correct yourself when someone points it out, because the base assumption is that you mean what you've said

The major problem, I think, with this entire situation (the pay gap) is that it has SO MANY FACTORS involved in it, and each one of those factors heavily influence what the outcome is.

1. Child-bearing age women are more likely than men to take maternity leave time off, thus hurting a business
2. Non child-bearing age women are (until I see evidence otherwise) the same likelihood as men to take time off (more/less?)
3. Women unable to bear children are (same as #2) the same likelihood to take time off as men

Those are poorly written examples, but I'm in a hurry. I think you see my point. Basically, its different for each and every single woman on the planet. Some women pop out babies every few years, some do it because they love children, some do it for tax benefits, some do it on accident. Some never have kids. The fact is though, as a business owner, the best you can do is make a judgement based on the information you HAVE. Overall, if you factor ALL women into one pile, and ALL men into another, women are more likely to take more time off. To simplify things for yourself, it isn't unreasonable to want to pay women less for that reason alone. No, it isn't fair to specific, individual cases, but more often than not (aka statistically) it IS fair, so a business owner is likely to do it.

Plus, we have a situation where a business owner looks at this situation:
1. If I fight for equality, I pay more money overall
2. If I allow there to be a pay gap, I pay less money overall

I find it hard to imagine the business owner that would gladly pay more overall for an "idealistic" situation. You know what I mean? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its fair/right/wrong/silly/bananas, I'm just saying when it comes to business, if a business owner can make the bad guy the "pay gap" instead of him/herself, then they're going to continue paying one group less. I guarantee you the second that bosses figure out how to lower men AND women's pay overall, but keep the same quality of workers, they'll do it. Hell, they already do. Its always about the bottom dollar, and how low they can get it.

**EDIT** I would like to politely request that, in the future, if my ladyfriend ever browses these forums, you all back me up when I deny my statements here, and pretend fully that I supported equality with a vehemence, and we can all pretend I even yelled at somebody who disagreed :P I'm kidding of course, possibly a poor place for a joke, but I feel like this thread could use a little silliness.

Another issue in this analysis- current payment variance may be due to *past* sexism having already damaged someone's career path or even sense of self worth. This might explain why the gap is higher amongst older women. We really need to see how that breakdown shifts over time...

@ebywyld

I think you are simply starting from the wrong assumption here. You seem to think that businesses have or should have equal rights to actual citizens, including the right to make choices which seem logical to them but hurt the work force. Where as the opposite is true. Not only do they not have this right but it is the duty of the state to impose legislation to the effect of forcing them to make choices which seem sub optimal but favor the workers and population in general. That is why we have sick leave, a 40 hour work week, vacations and other worker benefits and why you aren't allowed to employ 8 year olds to sweep chimneys any more.

Money needs to serve the people and not the other way around.

Factually speaking money serves those who understand it, and people who don't serve people who do. Economic education would be far more effective than trying to change the way economics works.




 

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