Perpetual Energy/ The Infinity Engine - Page 2 - OG Myth-Weavers

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Perpetual Energy/ The Infinity Engine

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowlark View Post
Even without creating and maintaining a total vaccuum (itself a fictional concept?), and even though we could not achieve a state of zero friction, and given that there would eventually be energy loss (especially through transfer and use), could we not feasibly set up a system that does convert gravity into kinetic energy, and that kinetic energy into electricity?

Could that be a workable, though not a "we're going to have electricity even after God brings the Second Comming," kind of energy source?
Hydroelectric dams use this method, albeit it indirectly. They use the pressure of deeper water to power turbines (where is natural water pressure without gravity?)

So, this idea is totally fictional, meant to be a part of my sci-fi game, but here's how I was seeing it. (It should be noted that the setting is some 4 thousand years in the future).

It relies on the assumption that artificial gravity (and grav plating) are possible. A spherical chamber is built, structurally designed to hold huge amounts of pressure from escaping outward. It's lined with concave sections of fitted grav plates that produce a high level of constant and uniform gravity inward, focusing on a single point in space at the sphere's center. Place an adequate amount of hydrogen in it, and compress it down until it ignites. Siphon radiant energy off of that source.

Again, we're not talking reality or any knowledge of engineering or physics here, just role playing fiction...

futuristic fusion reactor, not perpetual motion generator

Artificial gravity is possible. Find any rock, for instance. For gravity plating, find a flat rock. Gravity shielding is not possible unless you can produce negative-mass matter (which is not antimatter) because you could then violate Gauss' law for gravity. However, in order to produce gravity shielding, you would need exactly as much negative mass as you have positive mass in order for the two to appear as zero mass outside of the near field. The principle problem with artificial gravity has always been that of mass density: to make 1g of gravitation field, you would need 1 Earth worth of mass. Even with neutron degenerate matter, you would need a few thousand cubic meters of it to come up with that much mass. The only stuff that has the proper density is a singularity. And if you were generating singularities a few meters away, spaghettification and tidal effects would be difficult to avoid.

The key problem with the whole "suspend thing that goes in circles in a gravity well but is held up by magnetic field" is that it can work with a perfect vacuum, no friction, and no domain change losses... but there would be no way to extract energy from it. Sure, it's going round and round, but how do you get it to DO anything?

My thoughts:

Friction would be the number 1 killer of this idea. With that in mind, there are silicate gels being produced for physical research that reduce friction to the point that it is considered negligible - at least on surfaces in contact - so air resistance becomes the next problem. I don't really know what could be done about that.

There seems to be a bit of buzz about the laws of thermodynamics so I'll throw in my two cents. In my eyes the second law of thermodynamics is outdated and frankly wrong - at least the definition given on Wikipedia. It states that the entropy of an isolated system can not decrease. Now, I might be off base here, but I would assume that entropy is a byproduct of the transfer of energy. We know that matter can be converted into energy (with 100% conversion rate in a matter-antimatter reaction). Einstein's famous equation E=mc^2 is a theorem that mass can be converted to energy thereby increasing entropy. There is a general speculation that this equation must be reversible and that energy can theoretically be converted to mass thereby reducing entropy and negating the second and third laws of thermodynamics. This however has yet to be proven as far as I know and there are probably aspects of these laws that I'm missing.

I think the real problem with my engine would be that it could in theory be near perfect, but not perfect because the universe perpetually seeks equilibrium (that's not meant to be spiritual) in material motion and chemical reaction and in fact everything. I think the engine would go toward equilibrium. At best it would produce enough energy to power itself with no output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky B View Post
there are probably aspects of these laws that I'm missing.
/thread

The issue with your "matter convert to energy, energy convert to matter", Marky B, is that the second part does not reduce entropy. The most obvious case would be that of virtual particle pair production.

... I hope you know how entropy is measured?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky B View Post
I think the real problem with my engine would be that [...] At best it would produce enough energy to power itself with no output.
That's what all proposed perpetual energy machines do, in fact. Even if you remove all friction and make them 100% efficient, they'll just break even. They won't produce energy.




 

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