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Tiefling arcane trickster

   
Tiefling arcane trickster

Hi everyone,

I'm about to join a campaign. The DM said my character has 13 ECL, has a 32 point buy, and he hinted that the adventuring party really needs a rogue type. For some reason a tiefling arcane trickster came to mind.

Any suggestions on how I should create this character? Rogue/Sorcerer/Arcane trickster? Rogue/Bard Arcane trickster?

Help!

Before we get started, a question that will, hopefully prevent conversations from going every which way on this:

Are you set on being an Arcane Trcikster for flavor reasons or are you open to other ideas that are more mechanically efficent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnistar View Post
Before we get started, a question that will, hopefully prevent conversations from going every which way on this:

Are you set on being an Arcane Trcikster for flavor reasons or are you open to other ideas that are more mechanically efficent?
I was wondering if someone else would point that out.

And don't Tieflings get a Cha penalty? Isn't that like... half orc bard, but worse?

I'm guessing rogue type either means skills or traps. Traps aren't that big a deal as none of em go above CR 10. And most of the dangerous ones are more easily found via Detect Magic anyways. And disabled with Dispel Magic, or something. Skills... there are ways around this, starting with an Able Learner human wizard. High Int = lots of skill points. A 1 level dip would get you the necessary skills as class skills if needed. Even if not, being a few points behind likely won't hurt that bad as it is completely trivial to boost up skills as needed.

Or pureclass artificer. Trapfinding, decent skills, lots of versatility...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy View Post
I was wondering if someone else would point that out.

And don't Tieflings get a Cha penalty? Isn't that like... half orc bard, but worse?

I'm guessing rogue type either means skills or traps. Traps aren't that big a deal as none of em go above CR 10. And most of the dangerous ones are more easily found via Detect Magic anyways. And disabled with Dispel Magic, or something. Skills... there are ways around this, starting with an Able Learner human wizard. High Int = lots of skill points. A 1 level dip would get you the necessary skills as class skills if needed. Even if not, being a few points behind likely won't hurt that bad as it is completely trivial to boost up skills as needed.

Or pureclass artificer. Trapfinding, decent skills, lots of versatility...
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnistar View Post
Before we get started, a question that will, hopefully prevent conversations from going every which way on this:

Are you set on being an Arcane Trcikster for flavor reasons or are you open to other ideas that are more mechanically efficent?
Seriously, if you have other suggestions for roguish PCs, fire away! The tiefling idea just jumped in my head, as did the Arcane Trickster, but I'm open to tons of ideas and suggestions. Honestly, I've never truly played a rogue, so I could use some help.

The only catch is I want to play a human or humanoid that isn't a little Hobbit-like runt.

Ok, medium sized humanoid.

Humans are always good.

If you go something Int based instead, Dwarves are nice (but you lose the feat).

Elves take a Con penalty, which is bad.

I can't think of anything else offhand that doesn't have an LA. LA + caster = bad. Which is why tiefling sorc is worse than half orc bard.

Able Learner works well on any Int based caster to get those skills to get the roguish feel. You have to be human though.

Artificer is your best bet for versatility. You can even craft a Wand of Hunter's Eye to get 1-3 dice of Sneak Attack if you wanted and UMD it. Yeah, it's not much but if you really wanted to focus on SA (not really recommended) you could make that at least +7d6.

Level-adjusted races are generally a poor choice mechanically, particularly in high-level games. The tiefling's meagre racial bonuses pale in comparison to what's available magically at that level. You're almost always better off with the class level.

Humans are always a good choice. The extra feat goes a long way, as does the extra skill point.

Class-wise, you don't need to limit yourself to just a rogue. Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel (though less than CV) provide a wide range of rogue-like class options. The Scout has almost all the same skills (and the same skill points) as a rogue, for example. If you want rogue feel with magic, Beguiler (PHB2) is a good choice. Again, many of the same skills, 6 skill points per level, INT-based spontaneous casting from a rather large fixed list. The Spellthief has some interesting magical abilities in addition to the typical rogue, though their main schtick is rather limited unless you're facing a lot of magic-using opposition. The Psychic Rogue also provides a bit of magic feel with all the goodness of a standard rogue. I'm playing one right now in a play-by-post game, and so far she's a lot of fun. Kind of like a sorcerer with Sneak Attack 'Course, some DMs have a pathological aversion to psionics...

The trick with rogues is to decide first on the flavor you want to play and build your character from there. Sneaky trap finder? Philandering con artist? Smuggler? Thug? Enforcer? Military Scout? Dungeon Delver? Tomb Raider? Explorer?
best to go with Foctotum for that one
Jack-of-All-Trades?

I'd be happy to help you build something interesting!

Edit: What resources do you have available to you? The specifics of any given build will be drastically impacted by what books your DM (dis)allows. Typical starting wealth for Level 13?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMorganes View Post
Level-adjusted races are generally a poor choice mechanically, particularly in high-level games. The tiefling's meagre racial bonuses pale in comparison to what's available magically at that level. You're almost always better off with the class level.

Humans are always a good choice. The extra feat goes a long way, as does the extra skill point.

Class-wise, you don't need to limit yourself to just a rogue. Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel (though less than CV) provide a wide range of rogue-like class options. The Scout has almost all the same skills (and the same skill points) as a rogue, for example. If you want rogue feel with magic, Beguiler (PHB2) is a good choice. Again, many of the same skills, 6 skill points per level, INT-based spontaneous casting from a rather large fixed list. The Spellthief has some interesting magical abilities in addition to the typical rogue, though their main schtick is rather limited unless you're facing a lot of magic-using opposition. The Psychic Rogue also provides a bit of magic feel with all the goodness of a standard rogue. I'm playing one right now in a play-by-post game, and so far she's a lot of fun. Kind of like a sorcerer with Sneak Attack 'Course, some DMs have a pathological aversion to psionics...

The trick with rogues is to decide first on the flavor you want to play and build your character from there. Sneaky trap finder? Philandering con artist? Smuggler? Thug? Enforcer? Military Scout? Dungeon Delver? Tomb Raider? Explorer?
best to go with Foctotum for that one
Jack-of-All-Trades?

I'd be happy to help you build something interesting!

Edit: What resources do you have available to you? The specifics of any given build will be drastically impacted by what books your DM (dis)allows. Typical starting wealth for Level 13?
Honestly, I was going to keep it simple and stick to the books that I have, which unfortunately means none of the Complete books. I obviously have the core books, plus I have Unearthed Arcana. I also have Exemplars of Evil, Lords of Madness, Fiendish Codex I and II, plus the Expedition books, but I'm not sure if that'll help.

The scout type (ranger/rogue?) or the Jack-of-all-trades (a paragon class?) sounds like the type I would want to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithamar View Post
If you can get Dungeonscape, then the Factotum would be great.
I didn't want to resort to my ebooks, but I'll see if I have it, just for curiosity sake.

EDIT: Um, wow, yeah, that is a pretty cool class. I wonder what one with 13 class levels would look like?




 

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