The Lower Council (OOC / Storytellers)

That sounds great.

Lloth is currently "allied" with Kiaransali, but Revenancers are still not allowed in Menzo (openly). Llothites are more likely to use necromancy than they will be in "modern" times.

This fits in nicely with some events I have in mind regarding those two faiths.

I'll run the details by you to see what will fly and what won't. I'm planning on abusing the crap out of the gestalt possibilities and taking some odd feats since she'll be taking on more than a couple players.

JCBarnes - to answer your question from the main thread with a bit more detail, if a Matron has a Cha mod of 10, they have 13 Turning attempts per day. If they also have the Spider domain, they gain another 13 Rebuking (of spiders) per day.

if they take Extra Turning twice, thats another 6. and own a nightstick, thats another 4.

Now we have someone with a pool of 36 turning/rebuking attempts to burn. However, its illegal to rebuke spiders in Menzo, so those 13 cannot (legally) be used, on pain of death if caught.

So using 12 of them to put persistent True Sight on someone is quite worthwhile...

am i making sense?

However I've read that touch range spells can't be persisted at all in several places on the web. If that is true, you can't persist True Seeing. I'm trying to find a definitive WOTC ruling somewhere.

Edit: I found this on the EN boards, quoting a Tome and Blood FAQ:

Would spells that have touch range, such as spell
resistance, be considered to have a fixed range, and
therefore be usable with the Persistent Spell feat?

No. Range touch is not “fixed” for purposes of the Persistent
Spell feat. The spell must affect the caster’s person (personal
range) or have some effect that radiates from the caster’s
person (a fixed range, expressed in feet).

True I've seen that argument as well, and since i was unsure of DBs stance on it, If figured you can give a touch spell a fixed range Via "Reach". which can either be normally metamagiced, or done with a metamagic rod, or (in my case) is the reason i own a nightstick.

The 4 turns from the nightstick = 2 reach spells. and the 13 from Spider = 2 persisted spells.

I think that would only allow the caster to persist a True Seeing on himself (being where the effect radiates from), not cast it on anyone else (as the effect would then radiate from them, not you). I think you are right, this is one of those quirky issues Drowbane is going to have to rule on.

see, i saw it as doable mostly because it doesnt specify in the spell that you can only persist spells on yourself, and if you could, then the whole touch argument is void

but i agree, need to get DBs ruling on it. if he says you cannot persist spells on others, then i need to figure out my buffs again.

I'm pretty sure they intended the persist spell feat to be limited to the caster himself, otherwise there would have been no range restriction on its use at all. I think they used unclear language because of the wonky range descriptions for the various Detect spells (which they intended to be persisted). Even though the Detects are actually cast on yourself, the fixed range value described how far out the effect could detect something. You had to read the text of the spell to realize it radiated from the caster, not that you could cast the detect for someone else within that range.

For what it is worth to Drowbane, here is what I would recommend. Allow True Seeing to be cast as a persistent spell (using DMM, persistent spell feat and spell reach feat) only on the caster themselves. This will eat up 9 turnings if they want to cast it at the normal level of the spell. Disallow persistent casting of True Seeing using the above methods on anyone other than the caster. This would prevent more tricks like using a Chain Spell feat on top of the above to give everyone in the house 24 hour True Seeing every day. Otherwise, you could kiss any illusionists goodbye as they will be severely nerfed.

true, it makes sense for the detects and stuff, but all they would have to do is add a line saying "Caster can only persist spells on themselves".

If it does tho, then I think a lot of people will need to re-work their daily buffs.... or maybe not? I guess there arent a lot of fighter types without any magic abilities out there...

or just a rethink on how he gets them. theres a AWESOME tome feat that bumps up duration for any spell you cast, so True seeing would become Hours per level, instead of minutes... which would give the same effect, except there would be 1 hour a day without it.

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