Gaming by Prose - Fight Smart, Fight Fast

Deep apologies, tobias. I don't really understand your post. Can you rephrase somehow?

No problem. What I meant is, how will you determine the player's stats?

In D&D, there are all sorts of rules about what's allowed, how you roll your starting stats, when you get feats, etc. If you're intending to have each player fill a role, that's great--but how do we determine what our strength, dexterity, etc are? Also, beause there are some changes to the mechanics (e.g. the attack and damage rolls), certain parts of typical character creation are moot--like selecting powers in 4e. That doesn't matter because everything is done with the same dice, and it's the properties of the weapon (or how you alter the attack with skills) that makes each attack unique.

In D&D, there are all sorts of rules about what's allowed, how you roll your starting stats, when you get feats, etc. If you're intending to have each player fill a role, that's great--but how do we determine what our strength, dexterity, etc are?

The roles are for player vision, guide, and team dynamics. The roles are not mechanical, and do not affect stat system. The roles, by principle, changes according to player preferences anyway, and in the way they are expressed eg. tanker/healer/caster or attacker/scout/defender or melee/range/spells etc etc. The roles can come in any form, so long as the players play well together, and most times they do that cos they have agreed understanding of what roles they can offer, and never the same roles each encounter.



Also, because there are some changes to the mechanics (e.g. the attack and damage rolls), certain parts of typical character creation are moot--like selecting powers in 4e. That doesn't matter because everything is done with the same dice, and it's the properties of the weapon (or how you alter the attack with skills) that makes each attack unique.

4th ed powers usually have properties described within them, aside from dice damage. If absent, and player had selected said power, I will include a property within reason. I am hoping though, that once players understand from the start with House Rules that the dice damage has changed, not to pick powers that offer no discernible properties.

I think picking powers that rely more on narrative than specific rolls for damage etc is great--and it gives the players (and the DM) a lot of leeway in describing what they do in combat. I think that if someone chooses a power that doesn't have a discernable property (Cleave might be an example, a simple hit that deals automatic damage to a second target) could be easily enough "reskinned" to reflect the narrative.

As for roles, it's fine to keep that out of the mechanical bits of the system, but you'll still need to have some sort of mechanics involved, so players know where they stand. If a player doesn't have a stat for, say Arcana, and wants to augment a power, is it just automatically done? Does the effect of the spell depend on how well the player describes it? Unless you've got a different way of dealing with such things--which would be fine, it doesn't need to be a point buy or anything--it coudl very easily get arbitrary in terms of how well characters do certain things.

I'm confused, tobias. The stats still represent the same base modifier for skills and saves, except I added that Str and Con are for Fort, etc etc, like 4th edition. I am not sure what you mean then. Look at the character creation tab on the first page. Unless, I misunderstood what you are trying to tell me.

And until I amend or replace any components of the system, I am usually relying on what the 3.5 edition already does, such as point buy / roll for stats, or racial ability bonuses, etc etc. As the game progresses, the prototype and the players will inform me on further tweaking to refine the system I am testing out.

I understood where you're coming from in terms of which stats reflect which defences; what I'm after is how you intend for players to get those stats. If you're going to do a point buy or roll in the same way as 3.5, that answers my question.

Ooooooooooo, I see now. You were asking if there was a mechanical way to build the base stats by roles.

Lets say if character stats are not rolled nor point-bought, but defined by roles, how would you do it?

Hmm...well, the only reason to roll or do a point buy for stats is to see how you your character is at a given thing. I suppose you could define that by role, instead of by stats, by giving each role a certain set of skills and/or powers and/or some sort of "edge" over the others. Say, each role has four "basic" characteristics (same ones for each role, but different levels for each role), and a choice of three "Secondary" characteristics (so players still have the opportunity to individualize their character.)

So, for example, say the "Basic Characteristics" for each role are:

• Attack
• Defence
• Charisma (Social)
• Intelligence (Skill)

Each role then has a certain level in each characteristic; the Veteran might have a 5 for Charisma (because they've learned how to lead others) and a 2 in Intelligence (because their training has included more warfare than lore). These characteristics would be "ranked" at 2-5, with 5 being the highest; meaning that each role would have a 2 in their lowest stat, so they're not excluded from anything, just maybe not as good.
Likewise, the Rookie might have only a 1 in Charisma, but a 5 in Defense (because you have to learn to block a blow before you learn to land one). Or something like that. The trick here would be giving each role strengths and weaknesses, so all your players don't just want to be the strongest role.

Then, there are a bunch of "Secondary Characteristics" they can choose from, which could be anything--maybe even things suggested by the player (with DM's right to veto, of course). These could be:

• Magic Knowledge
• Special Weapon Prowess
• Tactical Knowledge
• Morale Booster
• Healing Lore

...and so on. Each of these characteristics gives the player something different about their character, an edge over others; this way, the character's differences don't rely just on roles, and each of them can fill a niche in the party. Whereas the Basic Characteristics would determine how good a certain character is at one thing or another, the Secondary Characteristics would give them extra flavour and abilities.

So let's say I want to build a Veteran Fighter. My stats might look something like this:

• Attack: 4
• Defense: 3
• Charisma: 5
• Intelligence: 2
• Magic User
• Tactical Knowledge
• Special Weapons Prowess

So my character would be good at attacking things, but not great at defense; great at inspiring others to follow (or maybe leading an attack), but not so good at identifying magic items or monster knowledge checks.
Also, I've learned to use magic, and gain access to a selection of spells; I can use my Tactical Knowledge during a battle to give people an edge during the fight (think the Controller Role in 4e); and my Special Weapons Prowess means I'm able to fight with a kusarigama, a weapon that has a basic attack, but also has reach and can trip or restrain enemies.

Or something like that. This gives you the ability to have players choose a role, but at the same time diversify that role to fit what they want to play (i.e."tanker/healer/caster or attacker/scout/defender or melee/range/spells etc" as you say below), while still having those choices have a mechanical effect on the game.
Then there's the question of how race affects it all. Maybe each race has a fourth Secondary Characteristic they get for free--Dwarves get Special Weapon Prowess: Greataxe, for example, or elves get Magic User. Then they get a racial modifier to one or two of the Basic Characteristics; Elves get a +1 to Charisma, or Drawves get a +1 to Defense.

Finally, there's the question of how the Basic Characteristics affect play. What does a 5 in Charisma mean? Does this give a bonus to a roll in game? Allow them to take certain actions that other players don't have access to?

Or maybe Basic Characteristics work the same as Secondary, and a player gets to select a total of three from a list of eight or ten, with the fourth being given for free by the Role.; I might choose Attack, Defense, and Stealth, for example, and because I'm a Veteran I get charisma for free. Each of those gives me access to certain actions/skills that I wouldn't have otherwise. That way there's no numbers at all.

Or is that moving away from what you're intending?

Reading over this again, I like the second idea better: each role comes with a free Basic Characteristic, and each Race comes with a free Secondary Characteristic. Then, players select three more Basic Characteristics and three Secondary Characteristics from a list for each, to customize their character. That seems a lot simpler, and I think it's closer to what you'd intended.

Hmmmmmm, depth in roles, eh. Let me mull it over and see if I understand the material.

In the meantime, I will set up a game ad, using Freeform forum, and basing off 3.5 edition. Will test run with a short Arc. If I find a way to apply your component, may I have permission to do so?

Also, I made more additions to page 1, tobias. Have a look to see if there are any more kinks to iron out. Thanks.