Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Batman Shooting

 
Wow. Do you work for CNN or Fox News? Because you just managed to take everything out of context and then spin it on its head. Bravo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriel View Post
In Colorado, unless a person was an expert marksman with perfect vision in less than perfect conditions, nerves of steel and lightning fast reflexes (which other than self-proclaimed super-soldiers like you, are a fairly rare breed), then drawing a weapon and standing up in that theater would have gotten him killed lickety-split. So much for self defense.
You seem willing to give James Holmes, a guy who had nearly nothing in the way of gun training (he was denied a place at a gun club), superhuman skill and the ability to shoot down any hypothetical armed citizen who attempts to reply though.

Holmes was depending on smoke, darkness, and a panicked mob to allow him to rack up his bodycount, not any sort of superman shooting skill, or nerves of steel or lighting fast reflexes, or darkvision....

There is an excellent chance that any return fire would of put Holmes down quickly or sent him fleeing, especially if it was an armed citizen with some real skill. Holmes wasn't trained for a firefight either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
You seem willing to give James Holmes, a guy who had nearly nothing in the way of gun training (he was denied a place at a gun club), superhuman skill and the ability to shoot down any hypothetical armed citizen who attempts to reply though.

Holmes was depending on smoke, darkness, and a panicked mob to allow him to rack up his bodycount, not any sort of superman shooting skill, or nerves of steel or lighting fast reflexes, or darkvision....

There is an excellent chance that any return fire would of put Holmes down quickly or sent him fleeing, especially if it was an armed citizen with some real skill. Holmes wasn't trained for a firefight either.
Yes, there is also the possiblity if someone had a weapon in the theater that the body count would be a lot higher due to the circumstances that Holmes created. The setting was enough to rattle anyone, even a combat veteran, probably especially a combat vet. Which movement in the smoke would they shoot at, would they be able to tell he was wearing body armor, could they see enough through the smoke and gas to aim. There are a lot of variables that are being flat out ignored. For those in the military or were, do you think that if you were exposed to CS gas would you be able to aim and shoot accurately.

I know when they put us (my training flight that is) through the gas chamber I didn't react to it like everyone else.they coughed and choked, tears, snot, all that junk. I kind of got teary, but other than that nothing. TI was ticked. But that is just me, not typical at all.

As far as body armor goes, it wouldn't matter. We are trained to put two in the chest one in the head.

Who could say what would have happened in that scenario for sure other than it likely would have been a better resolution even if just one less person were killed or wounded. I am not superhuman by any stretch, but pistol marksmanship with my weapon of choice (Springfield XDM) is a pretty simple affair and very accurate. If I would have died attempting to protect others then I would have not been the only one doing so. Of course it would have to be legal for me to carry in a theater to even make it matter.

Okay, so any of you amazing killing machines produced by the US Government care to back up their claims with some sort of statistic? All you've done so far is say, basically, 'well, I'm a pretty good shot. I bet I could take him', never mind that any of you have actually ever shot at anyone before in even ideal circumstances, never mind in a dark, crowded room full of different moving, screaming targets and tear gas and gun fire. Move beyond your epeen enhancing machismo and provide some useful data.

But nothing we do or say or manage to produce would satisfy you. You would come up with some sort of fallacy with everything. All I can do at this point is point out how wrong your sweeping generalities are using my own personal experiences. And what do you think war is? There is screaming, gas, smoke, fire, gun shots, etc. So yes, chaos is an environment in which people can properly operate in.

So go ahead and take this out of context and twist it however you want, make some more general comparisons and make it seem like everybody is exactly the same.

If you're in a cinema watching a batman movie with your wife and kids, family or friends, the first thing that comes to your mind is to pull out a gun and start shooting? If you were a family man or with family, you would do what you can to usher them out first before you start gunslinging. Maybe the military types out there would have a different reaction, or claim they would, but in reality, nothing prepares you for this kind of situation. A random starts shooting in a crowded theatre when you're just about to start digging into some popcorn, I'm pretty sure my first reaction would be 'Is this a prank?' or 'Are they acting this out?'

If you're G.I. Joe, forgive my civilian bluntness.

This is getting a little silly, and definitly more and more hostile. I think people should calm down in a hurry.

Aside from this case, in most mass shooring situations, there are multiple reasons that more mass killings may happen in gun free zones:
1) The shooter decides to minimize their risk and picks a gun free zone.
2) What was supposed to be a mass shooting turns into a 2 shot fight.

Most people are not excelent marksmen. I know I am halfway decent, though I do not own a gun, but if somehow I had found myself in that theater with a gun I would certainly not have pulled it out and opened fire, and would hope that anyone lacking military training would take the same approach. The term collateral damage is because even with military training sometimes you acquire the wrong target. Mow if I had a taser or other non-lethal options I might be willing to try and do something...

And keep in mind the killer bought teh guns legally, which means if stress training were required to obtain the guns, he would also have had that training. On the other hand maybe then he would have broken durring training instead of in a theater...





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Blog   Myth-Weavers Status