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Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Batman Shooting

 
Based on the equipment he had and the setup of the defenses in his apartment... this does not strike me as a "psychotic break." It looks quit premeditated, and he had every intention of surviving after the attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriel View Post
It's just frustrating because the process undertaken by both the law and the press only stands to encourage individuals with a similar mindset.
I've seen several people make this claim, and I would like to see proof of it. It's not like Columbine (to my knowledge) spawned a massive spree of school shootings, nor did the Virginia Tech massacre, or the Oklahoma City bombing. Acts of terror, while utterly reprehensible, seem to be the products of lone individuals, frequently with mental health issues (psychotic or not).

That said, this guy seems at least more rational than most of the people who commit these types of crimes, with a lot of premeditation going on. It will be interesting to see the results of his psyc eval.

Finally, my heart goes out to the victims of this attack. I wish there was more that could be done for them.

Can you recount for me the number of spree killings that took place in the two decades prior to Columbine?

Because I count at least four major instances since then (Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Congresswoman Giffords, Batman premier), in the U.S. alone. Is that not proof enough? Would you say that that is an acceptable amount?

it did appear that media coverage inspired Columbine to some degree- however many people started emphasising in the media what losers the people were who did it- not just before the attacks but the gratitude for their incompetence in executing the attacks. The result was that mass shootings seemed to go away for a while.
Columbine was also very thoroughly planned, as were a number of other incidents before- the difference is that every other incident they planned to die and did die. Whether the current perpetrator planned to die or not is uncertain, but if so he certainly did not follow through on it.
In previous cases people were also striking out at what they appeared to percieve as the source of their pain- the school where they were bullied or teased, the work where they felt dehumanized; this one seems to have been much more impersonally orchestrated- he was going for numbers rather people, it quite literally didn't matter who he killed. in this was he was acting much more like a psychopath than previous killing sprees did. it is interesting as well that he was a neurology major who was dropping out- I have to wonder if he didn't discover something about himself in his studies which led him to this act in some strange way. For example having a brain scan demonstrate that he was in fact a psychopath with an incomplete understanding of what that meant. Or maybe wondering if he could use such a biological defense to get off from a crime such as this.
On the other hand the booby trapping of his apartment and subsequent change of heart may indicate that he left the booby traps as a sort of revenge plan in case he did not survive...

As for prior to Columbine:
look here
I count 6 mass shootings in teh 2 *years* prior to Columbine, which is where this record more or less stops, though I recall hearing about dozens of others durring the early 1990's and into teh 1980's as I was in college and high school
this site plots them out, you can see an increase in shootings leading up to Columbine, then a decline, a long lull, and now another buildup.
Interestingly this used to be known in China as "running Amok" and apparently happened (with different weapons- largely melee weapons) durring the British occupation. I suspect that Fox news trying to scare people while challenging the administration's legitimacy has more to do with the attack frequency than batman...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriel View Post
Can you recount for me the number of spree killings that took place in the two decades prior to Columbine?

Because I count at least four major instances since then (Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Congresswoman Giffords, Batman premier), in the U.S. alone. Is that not proof enough? Would you say that that is an acceptable amount?
Of the 19 listed killing sprees listed on Wikipedia beyween 1979-1999, there are 19 entries. I don't know any of them.

Although the one I remember vividly is not on the list - Montreal 1989, Ecole Polytechnique - 15 dead including the killer who suicided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That falls in there with 9/11 Truthers
"The government killed thousands of people!"
And they didn't kill you to cover it up!
* and Birthers
At this point, I think Obama's just trolling them.
*. Paranoid stupidity.
I may be swinging in the other paranoid direction, but I personally see the hand of deliberation in these internet-initiated and -comported movements of mass paranoid delusion. I strongly suspect that there are groups of people who put this stuff out there and fan the flames of it, in order to keep the easily deluded whipped up into a nonsensical frenzy. It adds to the noise of an already chaotic society.

Given my prejudices, I of course suspect hardcore destabilizing rightists for this, but it could as easily be foreign nationals. There's no dearth of entities seeking to destabilize government and society in the western world.

I find it bizarre that Trump has fed into it with the Birther stuff. He's at a level of power that he must be aware the issue is a nonsensical one, but it's odd that he's so willing to contribute to the destabilization that comes with it. I would have thought that his economic priorities would have him promoting greater stability, and can't tell if his ego is "trumping" his better interests, or what other agenda he might have.

Fox news isowned by an Arab prince and an Australian. The rightists *are* the foreign nationals.

Okay, so there were more spree shootings in the late nineties than I thought. I still think that it's a bad idea to give the perpetrators so much sensational, personal coverage and attention, as more often than not they have proven to be loners who are acting out to draw attention to themselves.

Also, this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak
I suspect that Fox news trying to scare people while challenging the administration's legitimacy has more to do with the attack frequency than batman...
...is an uttterly ridiculous theory, not only because it is entirely unsupported by any factual evidence, but also because the majority of the incidents you just linked to happened before cable news had reacched its prominence, and well before this administration existed.

I'm hardly a defender of Fox News or radical rightists, but flame-fanning claims with no basis in reality are equally destructive regardless of which side they come from.

The fact is that most of these attacks are carried out by individuals with a personal agenda and not a political one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriel View Post
The fact is that most of these attacks are carried out by individuals with a personal agenda and not a political one.
Political attacks tend to use large-scale explosives over a single gunman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
There's a petition going around the internet to have Bale visit the victims in full costume, as a way to show that there are good guys in the world, too.

While it would be cool of him to do it, I wonder if it plays into the desires of the killer...
I saw the petition. While I greatly appreciate the sentiment, I can't help but feel it's a tad bit... I don't want to say disrespectful, but a) has a pretty decent chance of triggering bad memories for the victims, if not full-blown PTSD, and b) puts the focus back on the movie this happened in, which I feel isn't really the point and shouldn't be the point.

Though I wouldn't mind the actors and crew doing something nice for the victims, including visiting them, but full-costume is taking it a bit far IMHO. Still, nice sentiments.





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