Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Fox News Banned From Canada for Lying

   
Solaris, there is such a thing as objective fact. They have been broadcasting outright lies as factual news. They have literally been lying to the nations face and calling it news. It distorts the public discourse when part of the nation is speaking from false premises. I'm not talking about things like their broad ideology, which while distasteful to me is not when I can honestly call a lie. I'm talking about lying about what politicians are saying, maliciously broadcasting out of context soundbites to make their opponents sound bad, distorting what various laws actually mean, broadcasting outright slander (or is it libel when it's on broadcast news?). There's nothing wrong with championing the right wing cause in and of itself. But how Fox News and its' ilk go about it is the problem.

Or the truth according to what is actually true? But I guess that is too much to ask in this country. People can talk about whatever they want. I have a ptoblem with people that blatantly lie to an entire nation to sway an election or a vote in there favor. If politicians and the various newsgroups that pine for there approval just stuck to the truth we wouldn't be in half the mess we are in today.

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Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
Solaris, there is such a thing as objective fact.
That would be the point I'm trying to make, yes.

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Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
They have been broadcasting outright lies as factual news.
And... name me a station that doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Phuse View Post
Or the truth according to what is actually true? But I guess that is too much to ask in this country. People can talk about whatever they want. I have a ptoblem with people that blatantly lie to an entire nation to sway an election or a vote in there favor. If politicians and the various newsgroups that pine for there approval just stuck to the truth we wouldn't be in half the mess we are in today.
So do I, but you don't see me trying to get anybody shut down or banned. Either the voters can figure out truth from lies with a little bit of research on their own, or they have no business being voting citizens in a republic.

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
And... name me a station that doesn't.
There aren't any. Isnt that what we've been trying to say? Seriously, you need to keep up here.

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That would be the point I'm trying to make, yes.


And... name me a station that doesn't.


So do I, but you don't see me trying to get anybody shut down or banned. Either the voters can figure out truth from lies with a little bit of research on their own, or they have no business being voting citizens in a republic.
So, now everyone has to be there own investigative journalist in order to even hsve the right to vote?

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That would be the point I'm trying to make, yes.
So why then are you championing Fox New's ability to lie to the public? If you can pick and choose the facts that you believe in the news, why stop there? Pick and choose what moral beliefs are absolute this week, or what version of US history is correct. Then you can pick and choose what laws of nature are the right ones. How well would that work out? The fact is that Fox lies, and their lying distorts the nations ability to react to the real world. If you're doing the exact wrong thing while believing that its' the exact right one, then you're going to do a lot more damage than an honest mistake due simply to the fact that you think you're in the right. This isn't someone speaking from a soapbox in Times Square, this is a 24/7 news apparatus, and it should be held to a higher standard than John Q Public. If your ideology is as sound as you think it is, you shouldn't need to lie about it to make it palatable to the masses.

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And... name me a station that doesn't.
The CBC is usually pretty good, the BBC even better. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes. But they'll run retractions if they do, and they don't really have much of an ideology, at least when presenting the news. In the US, as I recall CBS is in a similar boat to the Broadcasting Corps. Al Jazeera is actually pretty good too. It does have its biases, especial in the editorials, but when reporting on actual events in the Middle East and Northern Africa I've found it to be more reliable than most western broadcasters.

People will make mistakes, sure. But a pervasive and deliberate pattern of lies is the exception, not the rule.

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So do I, but you don't see me trying to get anybody shut down or banned. Either the voters can figure out truth from lies with a little bit of research on their own, or they have no business being voting citizens in a republic.
We should be doing what we can to make it easier to be an informed citizen, not harder. Ramping up funding for education in order to encourage the old critical thinking skills would help, though even critical thinking seems to be becoming anathema on your end of the spectrum. But at the same time, not allowing people to lie and call it news would also help on that front, and it's not something that most people will find objectionable. They can editorialize out the wazoo no problem. But they have to make it clear that such things are their opinions, not objective fact. That's the split. They can say whatever crazy stuff they want, but they can't do that while also pretending that it's objective reality.

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Originally Posted by Phuse View Post
There aren't any. Isnt that what we've been trying to say? Seriously, you need to keep up here.
That's what you and I are saying, yes. Some may disagree. More importantly, why is Fox being singled out for banning (as opposed to filing suit against them for their lies - and then filing suit against every other American news station)? I'm thinking it's on account of the lies they're selling are ones the Canadian government doesn't like being told. This goes nowhere good.
All I ask is that people put at least as much effort into their decisions on voting that they do their decisions to buy a car or house. You don't need to be an expert on the subject, but you should at least investigate the sources whenever you see something that strikes you as being odd. The fact that people don't, the fact that people accept what they see and read without question, that disgusts me. Be skeptical. Question everything. Trust nothing. You know, like the journalists are supposed to be, instead of being the mouthpieces for one party or the other.

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Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
So why then are you championing Fox New's ability to lie to the public?
What can I say? When I say freedom of the press is an absolute, I mean it. Prosecute them for each individual act of lying. Throw the book at them if and when they lie but refuse to run a retraction. But to ban them outright goes nowhere good. It establishes all manner of bad precedent. How can anyone who values freedom defend this? I wouldn't care what station it is - I don't watch cable news, it's a load of garbage - but to block someone (or something) for lying paves the way for all manner of... unpleasantness.

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Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
The CBC is usually pretty good, the BBC even better. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes. But they'll run retractions if they do, and they don't really have much of an ideology, at least when presenting the news. In the US, as I recall CBS is in a similar boat to the Broadcasting Corps. Al Jazeera is actually pretty good too. It does have its biases, especial in the editorials, but when reporting on actual events in the Middle East and Northern Africa I've found it to be more reliable than most western broadcasters.
CBS, NBC, MSNBC, they're all as bad or worse than Fox News with the skewing of facts or outright fabrications. Remember Walter Cronkite, how the station itself resisted until the story had hit the blogosphere and Fox?
And having actually been involved with some of Al-J's stories... they're not nearly as accurate as they've led you to believe. By the same logic used with Fox, Canada ought to ban Al-Jazeera and pretty much every single American news station.
But yes, the BBC has the reputation for being honest.

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Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
...though even critical thinking seems to be becoming anathema on your end of the spectrum.
*Facepalm*
Of course. The only way two people can disagree is if one is an unthinking baboon. Why do I even bother? I'm gonna just go back to debating with Phuse and ignore the peanut gallery, m'kay?

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That's what you and I are saying, yes. Some may disagree. More importantly, why is Fox being singled out for banning (as opposed to filing suit against them for their lies - and then filing suit against every other American news station)? I'm thinking it's on account of the lies they're selling are ones the Canadian government doesn't like being told. This goes nowhere good.
Actually, our PM has been lobbying hard to repeal the Radio Act. We just hold our laws to be more important than our current administrations narrow ideology. Fox isn't specifically banned, it's just that its' issues with telling the truth run up against our laws requiring truth in news. If it starts broadcasting the truth again, it'll be welcome to broadcast here.

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All I ask is that people put at least as much effort into their decisions on voting that they do their decisions to buy a car or house. You don't need to be an expert on the subject, but you should at least investigate the sources whenever you see something that strikes you as being odd. The fact that people don't, the fact that people accept what they see and read without question, that disgusts me. Be skeptical. Question everything. Trust nothing. You know, like the journalists are supposed to be, instead of being the mouthpieces for one party or the other.
So you support the absolute freedom of the press, while simultaneously decrying the effect it has had on the media? Don't you see a bit of a disconnect there?

Also, doesn't freedom of the press means that the press is free from direct government management, not that it can freely print/broadcast whatever the crap it wants?


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CBS, NBC, MSNBC, they're all as bad or worse than Fox News with the skewing of facts or outright fabrications. Remember Walter Cronkite, how the station itself resisted until the story had hit the blogosphere and Fox?
And having actually been involved with some of Al-J's stories... they're not nearly as accurate as they've led you to believe. By the same logic used with Fox, Canada ought to ban Al-Jazeera and pretty much every single American news station.
But yes, the BBC has the reputation for being honest.
I note that most of those you say are as bad or worse than Fox run contrary to your ideological shift. You might want to think about that.

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Of course. The only way two people can disagree is if one is an unthinking baboon. Why do I even bother? I'm gonna just go back to debating with Phuse and ignore the peanut gallery, m'kay?
I'm not trolling. This is an actual thing the Texas GOP are doing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...pFXW_blog.html

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
That's what you and I are saying, yes. Some may disagree. More importantly, why is Fox being singled out for banning (as opposed to filing suit against them for their lies - and then filing suit against every other American news station)? I'm thinking it's on account of the lies they're selling are ones the Canadian government doesn't like being told. This goes nowhere good.
All I ask is that people put at least as much effort into their decisions on voting that they do their decisions to buy a car or house. You don't need to be an expert on the subject, but you should at least investigate the sources whenever you see something that strikes you as being odd. The fact that people don't, the fact that people accept what they see and read without question, that disgusts me. Be skeptical. Question everything. Trust nothing. You know, like the journalists are supposed to be, instead of being the mouthpieces for one party or the other.
The only reason Fox is being singled out here is because of that article. CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, all of them are just as guilty as the next. As far as suing them for lying, that's a tough nut to crack. You would have to prove that they actually meant to do harm. All the defense would have to do is put there hands up like idiots and be all "We didn't mean it!" Without concrete proof there would be no liable/slander. I wouldn't trust that article as far as I could throw its writer. It's from a very sketchy website who links to very broad interpretations of the rules and then just says Fox (which he probably picked out of a hat).

On a side note: I wouldn't say you are debating me. I am by no stretch of the imagination a very smart man. There is a reason I went straight to the military from High school. And now I just work and
Yes, in college. To be a video game designer/producer. Yay me -.-
study. It's more a one sided argument with me going NO! NO NO NO NO! :-P

I supose one could sue Fox News for false advertising, since they do advertise not only that they are News but also Fair and Ballanced. I'm not sure how that would work though since you don't pay for the product...
Of course teh real tragedy of Fox news, Canadian legal system aside, is how many Americans buy into the outright lies they broadcast and assume that actual facts are some kind of liberal conspiricy. Which is why we now have a GOP platform which is against critical thinking...




 

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