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Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Society - Inequality vs. Equality

   
Note the 'or, sometimes, a widower'.
The default meaning remains a reference to widows, with reference to widowers being recently tacked-on and comparatively rarely used.

Well, in parts of the world being a widow is an active social stigma in excess of societies views of widowers. I don't need to remind you that it wasn't that long ago that Indian widows were expected to throw themselves on their husband's funeral pyres. It's mentioned specifically because they are a socially vulnerable group in significant parts of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savayan View Post
Well, in parts of the world being a widow is an active social stigma in excess of societies views of widowers. I don't need to remind you that it wasn't that long ago that Indian widows were expected to throw themselves on their husband's funeral pyres. It's mentioned specifically because they are a socially vulnerable group in significant parts of the world.
Yeah, pretty much this.

Wasn't that declaration made in the 40's anyway? Times change.

Personally, I would either expect that sort of thing to be handled separately from what is otherwise a list of causes of personal economic hardship (a right to freedom from gender-based discrimination, for instance), or for the list to be quite a bit larger and more general, covering other possible causes of social stigma (but then, 'a right to security in the event of socially stigmatized racial minority' just doesn't have the same ring to it).

Well, from a point of view, social ostracization is a cause of personal economic hardship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ben View Post
Wasn't that declaration made in the 40's anyway? Times change.
Yes, people shouldn't be entitled to food and a roof, what madness is this?

Also how old is the Constitution? Times change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthbound View Post
Yes, people shouldn't be entitled to food and a roof, what madness is this?

Also how old is the Constitution? Times change.
It's quite clear I'm referring to the portion about widows instead of including both genders.

Considering the randomness of personality types across the vast numbers of humanity's current population, if society does decide to provide all those rights and enforce the defending of them with systemic practices and policies, I think we would have enough people devoted to work and progress to have a much better world than if we continue on a competitive market driven social system and economy.

Regardless of what system we end up with mankind will not mature as a species until we collectively and systematically stop the greedy and ruthless among us from taking so much more than any one of us should have a right to possess. Those with such skills and drive will of course still naturally obtain the best of what there is but clearly, with limited resources and with any consideration of human rights we must necessarily limit the resources available to any single individual.

The absurdly gifted among us will be granted discretion over vast resources to propel mankind forward only in a group sense. Their gifts will not be lost by forbidding them undue personal power. Indeed the many hundreds of Sauron's rings of personal wealth all need to be cast into their hundreds of Mount Dooms. Far more of the gifted that are presently held back by the childish whim of mad dynastic power brokers will rise from the ranks of humanity and carry technology and human maturity forward on huge wave unfettered by the crushing market competition. Beauty will flourish rather than have to make a profit. Like Mr. Lennon, for now, I can only Imagine ...

You will never find a stronger proponent of individual rights than myself, but, it is categorically (IMHO) not the right of any one person to take, possess, be given, or otherwise obtain hundreds of times more than even the least of his fellow humans. Frankly, it's morally absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by series0 View Post
You will never find a stronger proponent of individual rights than myself, but, it is categorically (IMHO) not the right of any one person to take, possess, be given, or otherwise obtain hundreds of times more than even the least of his fellow humans. Frankly, it's morally absurd.
With that but it actually makes it incredibly easy to find someone who's a bigger proponent of individual rights. I mean, you just wrote a whole post glorifying collectivism and then try to say you're a strong proponent of individual rights? Silly...

Mature individualism abides hand in hand with collectivism.

It does not deny an individual any of their strengths to say that they should behave in a mature way. It may attempt at least to deny them their weaknesses.

I abhor invasion of privacy. We need less people so that this is even remotely possible though.
I hate any law that attempts to judge my merit by setting least common denominator limits on my performance and behavior.
I believe that as individuals we have the right to the truth. That's a huge pit of idealism, but I believe it. No government secrets of any lasting nature. No corporate secrets. Full disclosure, all the time.

Yet, an individual's rights end where the truth of limited resources is found. If you want to reduce that to a collectivism stance you're missing the underlying truth. My individualism is very strong and founded on personal merit. It is possible to have your freedoms restricted if you prove yourself continually incapable of handling your freedoms. Thus we allow for the truth that all men(and women) are not created equal. Individuals are free to exceed one another in mature ways. It's very true that the most important skill of all in such a society will be the means of recognizing maturity which by its very nature implies a willingness not to abuse that power and to self-regulate. It will not eliminate evil but it will make much evil more obvious and more likely to be under the scrutiny of shame.




 

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