Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Libya consulate attack

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkWren View Post
Bolded for emphasis. You just proved ultima's point.
It's not about trying to prove the other person wrong. I agreed with ultima that it doesn't happen overnight, but pointed out that there is a precedent in the Muslim world for rapid (on the scale that these things happen) cultural change.

Nakoula arrested for violating terms of his probation for 2010 bank fraud conviction

Quote:
He was ordered not to own or use devices with access to the Web without approval from his probation officer and any approved computers were to be used for work only. "Defendant shall not access a computer for any other purpose," according to the terms of his probation.

There were also restrictions placed on him in enlisting others to get on the Internet for him. Some speculated that Nakoula may have violated those terms after the film trailer was loaded onto YouTube, although it is unclear what exactly prompted the recent arrest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Clamantis View Post
It's not about trying to prove the other person wrong. I agreed with ultima that it doesn't happen overnight, but pointed out that there is a precedent in the Muslim world for rapid (on the scale that these things happen) cultural change.
Agreed, it's not about proving someone right or wrong; however, it's hard to take you seriously when you disprove your own point. And even though change may occur rapidly, "rapidly" and "instantaneously" are two very different things. Even in the modern age of rapid information exchange, society still changes relatively slowly. To expect the Arab Spring nations to match the West in the freedoms offered to their citizens only a year (+/- a few months) after the uprisings is pretty ludicrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkWren View Post
Agreed, it's not about proving someone right or wrong; however, it's hard to take you seriously when you disprove your own point.
Emphasis mine.

What point do you think I was trying to make that I disproved? I introduced a historical comparison to recent events, and included information about how long it took. Are you saying I disproved the existence of Hamid Al-Ghazali?

You know, whatever. I'm not going to pursue this discordant tangent any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Clemantis
Emphasis mine.

What point do you think I was trying to make that I disproved? I introduced a historical comparison to recent events, and included information about how long it took. Are you saying I disproved the existence of Hamid Al-Ghazali?
This was the original point you made:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Clamantis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultima
Well the point I was making that it takes time for a culture to be wanting these ideals. Women didn't even have the right to vote till the 20th century. Can't expect the folks in the middle east to just rapidly change their culture over night.
It has happened before. In the 11th century a philosopher/mystic named Hamid Al-Ghazali almost single-handedly overthrew the Islamic culture of science and mathematics and reason by leading a lifelong attack against the rational worldview.

Now, he didn't do it in just a few years, but he did do it. (At least, he's largely the reason. It was obviously a gross cultural movement, not just one guy ranting.)
Wherein you appear to argue that change has occurred rapidly within the Arab world in the past, and simultaneously acknowledge that it took several years to happens. QED.

So this seems to have been a real thing, and not as made up as folks were accusing republicans of trying to drum it to be.

Do you have some new source of information, silverwolfer, that you'd like to share with the board, or is this just an absent-minded necro?

THREADOMANCY!!!!!

So, is there some new news that you'd like to share Silver? I guess I better start googling then.

Well, with the recent well Hmm... that depends on which way you view things.

With the recent testimonies that were done by those that were involved in it, if you view it as political theater then, I have nothing to add. If you view it as a potential cover up or misfire of leadership, then it seems to put it on a stronger alignment of

what went wrong

It is something we need to pay attention to

the subject is not over yet



As for the necro charges, conversations are never over, and better to continue on what has already been established , then start all over again.


Edit: http://www.csmonitor.com/Media/Conte...iy-on-Benghazi

For some of the info.

I'm not even sure what you are saying is a real thing.
The fact that people on teh ground recognized it as terrorism before people in the white house? Ask any veteran about who understands a sitation first and that comes as no suprise.
The fact that the military maybe could have made it there in time to counter teh second attack had they known when and where and that it would occur? Hindsite is always 20-20.
That someone is using the benghazi attack for political ends? Sure, the Republicans ahve been doing that since day 1.




 

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