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Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Independence Movements

   
Scotland's been talking about this for a while, and in some cases, militant about it since The Act of Union with England in 1707; the failure of business attempts in Panama and crop failures at home left Scotland with little resources and nothing left to do but agree to it. But many Scots have felt it beneficial over the years, in the economic, military and social fields. Many of England's leaders have deep roots there, and the Queen maintains a residence in Braemar. But there are few ties anymore. Scotland will be energy sufficient and able to sell it to Europe next year, and its contributions to society have been porportionately huge in relation to the population, and they have strong national pride. It's probably time for one of the longest-standing continuous monarchies in Europe to be the newest autonomous country.

Quebec and Going Broke:

1. If Quebec were to leave, a foresee a lot of foreign investors pulling out. Brand new countries are not a stable place to invest money into. Along the same token, I see Canada's economy taking a hit for the same reason.

2. If Quebec were to leave, I foresee Montreal - Quebec's largest city and financial center - remaining as part of Canada, or becoming an independent city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
1. If Quebec were to leave, a foresee a lot of foreign investors pulling out. Brand new countries are not a stable place to invest money into. Along the same token, I see Canada's economy taking a hit for the same reason.
That scare tactic was used in the 1995 referendum. Armored trucks were seen leaving Montréal going to Toronto, under the pretense that companies pulled their money out of the province. It was later revealed that those trucks were empty.

The would be short term disturbances, but within a few years, we'd be better off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthbound View Post
they must clearly feel like a completely separate culture, with completely separate sets of values/beliefs.
Very different values, at least compared to the current government. Almost every time I hear about a federal decision, it has been opposed by the provincial politicians, even the federalist ones.

I wonder how americans would feel about Louisiana becoming an independant state.
Language aside just about every US state has a different culture from teh rest of the US, why is this such a problem in Canada?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
I wonder how americans would feel about Louisiana becoming an independant state.
Language aside just about every US state has a different culture from teh rest of the US, why is this such a problem in Canada?
Quebec is a special snowflake.

Most people i hear that phrase in reference to wind up in special institutions with people to care for them...

As an aside, hearing about stuff like this makes me want to cede from Canada as an Ontarian:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edito...against-canada

Personally, I resent the special concessions and treatment Quebec gets versus the other provinces in the name of its francophone exceptionalism, but I'd rather Canada be whole than fragmented, as I'm not at all convinced by secessionist arguments that it would be to our benefit, or even theirs.

That said, first past the post needs to go. It is an inexcusably horrible political system as evidenced by the fact that it allowed our conservatives to steal a dictatorial majority despite having only the support of a third of the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
That said, first past the post needs to go. It is an inexcusably horrible political system as evidenced by the fact that it allowed our conservatives to steal a dictatorial majority despite having only the support of a third of the country.
Have a look at the German system. It's not perfect, but it does seem to balance proportional representation with a workable governmental system (while still limiting the ability of the crazies to use it as a forum, unless they get significant voting support)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agricolus View Post
But there are few ties anymore. Scotland will be energy sufficient and able to sell it to Europe next year, and its contributions to society have been porportionately huge in relation to the population, and they have strong national pride. It's probably time for one of the longest-standing continuous monarchies in Europe to be the newest autonomous country.
Few ties? Many many people have family on both sides of the border, Parliament consists of members of both sides, leaders come from both sides, military is joined, currency is joined, language is joined etc. etc.

Speaking of currency, Scotland would not be autonomous or independent, it would either remain in currency and fiscal union with the rest of the UK, or would be subservient to the EU and the Euro.

Hear all about Quebec lately, but I never heard about Scotland wanting to separate. That's actually kind of interesting, if a bit unexpected.
As for Quebec though, since that seems to be where this has ended up... I say let em seperate. IF they manage to do fine on their own, great. If they can't, we'll have em back before long. And if they really feel they need to be their own country cause they really think they're that culturally different, we're no more right to stop em than we are to stop Kosovo.




 

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