Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Independence Movements

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyphen View Post
And if they really feel they need to be their own country cause they really think they're that culturally different, we're no more right to stop em than we are to stop Kosovo.
Past referenda would seem to suggest that a majority of them do not feel this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyphen View Post
Hear all about Quebec lately, but I never heard about Scotland wanting to separate. That's actually kind of interesting, if a bit unexpected.
It is interesting, but not necessarily true. Scotland has always been fiercely independent, and has maintained it's own government and legal systems since Union, as well as it's own cultural ties.
It has been an equal partner in the Union and as such we're not so much talking about a breakaway state as a dissolution.

There has always been this idea bouncing around but never any real movement, no protests no significant organisation until recently with the SNP agitating national pride. There is no real reason to leave, but every reason to remain. Personally I believe they do no want dissolution but separation and more powers for the independent Scottish Parliament, unfortunately this is not very satisfactory for the other nations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
I wonder how americans would feel about Louisiana becoming an independant state.
Been tried. Failed miserably and at great cost. The thing about America is that it was built on an idea, not on language, geography, etc and as such the bonds are much stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Jean-Martin Aussant (again) made an analogy: Québec has $50 to spend on music. Ottawa takes that $50, spends $20 to administer that money, then purchases $30 of music that Québec doesn't like.

There are many videos of Aussant on YouTube, but unfortunately those where he explains the financial reasons are all in French.
Isn't that a more a figure of speech? I mean :
- blatantly overstating administration expenses;
- ignoring the fact that anyway you would have to cover the administrative expenses;
- ignoring the fact that your tastes aren't homogeneous, but merely you have a chance that slightly different purchase would be made from public money (Ex, hypothetically in whole Canada 60% prefer solution A and 40% prefer solution B; while in Quebec its 40% for A and 60 for B%) Sure, you could get a slightly more liked idea but nothing shockingly better.

Quote:
Trade: an independent Québec would have the ability to negotiate its own trade agreements, rather than being imposed whatever Ottawa decides - and Ottawa's interests are not the same as Québec's.
May you elaborate that? What would you change? Except the part that you would have to make the whole diplomatic work one more time. (an be hit by ex. lack of some double tax treaty signed on time)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
Quebec and Going Broke:
1. If Quebec were to leave, a foresee a lot of foreign investors pulling out. Brand new countries are not a stable place to invest money into. Along the same token, I see Canada's economy taking a hit for the same reason.
Come on, they would a stable, first world democracy anyway - nothing for business to flee in panic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TW Teczka View Post
Come on, they would a stable, first world democracy anyway - nothing for business to flee in panic.
Except they would've pissed off their largest investor and trading partner by leaving them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
Except they would've pissed off their largest investor and trading partner by leaving them.
Pissed them off? Or made their day? Depending on who you talk to, either answer is possible.
Let Quebec go it alone. If it's truly what they want, let them try it. If it works, it's good for everyone, if it fails, they'll rejoin Canada and may even be less strident in their demands for independence next time (and there will be a next time).
The best option is they try and succeed, and then everyone is better off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggie2 View Post
if it fails, they'll rejoin Canada and may even be less strident in their demands for independence next time (and there will be a next time).
Or they could join America. We've had our sights set on Quebec since the very beginning

You kidding, they hate us Canadian Anglos. You folks are like a ravening barbarian horde to them.

You know, I wanted to get my facts straight on the attempted invasions of Canada that the US has done throughout the years. However, I stumbled across something very interesting. Though it doesn't seem like anyone ever expected to use it, there was a plan written for war with the UK, and naturally along with it, invasion of Canada. This was War Plan Red, approved in 1930, and declassified in 1974.

For those interested, the US has invaded Canada on numerous occasions, such as the campaign of 1775 (ending in Continental defeat at the Battle of Quebec), and a pair of invasions in the War of 1812, if memory serves.

Don't forget the Fenian Raids. Technically not a US government action, but you guys didn't to much to stop an army of armed Irishmen from using your nation as a base of operations. And War Plan Red is an example of something that's as much a though exercise for staff officers as preparing for a worse case scenario. We had a plan made up for striking south in the occasion of a US war against the Empire too, Defence Scheme No. 1.





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