Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Independence Movements

   
In fairness, in the US we really didn't do much of anything to stop any armed group using the US as a springboard of operations. The Adventures in Central and South America? The invasion of Cuba? Half the reasons we love our guns so much is so that when we get the itch, we can off and invade something!

On a more serious note, I saw this in the news this morning. I didn't even know Flanders had a secessionist movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powderhorn View Post
You know, I wanted to get my facts straight on the attempted invasions of Canada that the US has done throughout the years. However, I stumbled across something very interesting. Though it doesn't seem like anyone ever expected to use it, there was a plan written for war with the UK, and naturally along with it, invasion of Canada. This was War Plan Red, approved in 1930, and declassified in 1974.

For those interested, the US has invaded Canada on numerous occasions, such as the campaign of 1775 (ending in Continental defeat at the Battle of Quebec), and a pair of invasions in the War of 1812, if memory serves.
My Uncle was fairly high up (not quite general) in the US Military and was part of the group that did a ton of planning. He pretty much said we have plans to invade nearly everywhere and everything filed away somewhere because to keep skills sharp you practiced with different scenarios instead of always the same ones. Each situation/country provided unique challenges and something to learn from. "What if LA declares it's independence?" isn't a reflection of political realities, it's just a way to have a scenario grounded in reality that teaches something.

Most of the plans we hear about with invading other countries are along the same route I think.

Hell, the US apparently has plans on file for dealing with alien invasions and zombie outbreaks.

Yes, in the case of a zombie outbreak we first deny the existance fo a zombie outbreak and blame it on bath salts...

I had one of those zombie outbreak / bath salts calls a few weeks ago. That made for an interesting night.

I know that the US has plans for just about anything, but at the same time I can't help to feel that War Plan Red was more "real" than what we use these days. Not much more so, but, something that they could "almost" see happening.

Real plans take into account a lot of variables that wouldn't normally come up. Many of the modern plans make assumptions that might not necessarily be justified, such as comparative quality levels, determination, psychological reactions to an assault and such. A lot of these can be a little bit on the optimistic side.
A plan that envisions going up against people very similar to your own, with as much mental resilience as your own people, on their home ground, a people that have no reason to hate or fear you, who you know well because they know you well, a people that you have historically met in battle a number of times before and not only failed to defeat, but who took the battle back to you as far as the White House itself, well, any plan like that is going to be as real as they can make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powderhorn View Post
I had one of those zombie outbreak / bath salts calls a few weeks ago. That made for an interesting night.

I know that the US has plans for just about anything, but at the same time I can't help to feel that War Plan Red was more "real" than what we use these days. Not much more so, but, something that they could "almost" see happening.
Well, it should feel real. I tried finding it and couldn't but a few years ago I remember reading that they had either modified this plan or made a new one for the invasion of Canada early WWII. Basically the thought being that in case England surrendered and Canada followed then they would have then occupied Canada to prevent Germany from taking it.

England and France were pretty good allies but they ended up invading France on D-day. You can't always know what forms your plans will eventually take. They make good training situations even if they'r not current political realities.

The idea of Canada surrendering along with England seems so odd. More likely the English gov would shift to Canada and continue as a Gov in exile. But I guess they had to consider all angles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggie2 View Post
Real plans take into account a lot of variables that wouldn't normally come up. Many of the modern plans make assumptions that might not necessarily be justified, such as comparative quality levels, determination, psychological reactions to an assault and such. A lot of these can be a little bit on the optimistic side.
A plan that envisions going up against people very similar to your own, with as much mental resilience as your own people, on their home ground, a people that have no reason to hate or fear you, who you know well because they know you well, a people that you have historically met in battle a number of times before and not only failed to defeat, but who took the battle back to you as far as the White House itself, well, any plan like that is going to be as real as they can make it.
I don't remember trying to invade england ;P. Since the burning of washington performed by the royal marines under the command of
Born in Ireland
Robert Ross
Born in London
George Cockburn. Canada has plenty of awesome people and moments (one more). There's no need to steal from the British.




 

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