Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Federations and the future?

   
I've heard about idea of Nordic Union quite recently, on my post graduate study. Technically possible.

If I might play with political fiction, I can think of something different. What about forming some kind of hard core of northern EU? It would start in Austria, include Germany, Holland and whole Scandinavia. It would emit its own currency, thus allowing southern part of the EU keeping Euro. The EU would cease trying to pretend that it keeps comparable level of uniformity.

Argh, I so do not want to get into a debate about Bananas! They're... bananas. I prefer guango anyway.

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Originally Posted by da prophet View Post
Nordic union! Im from norway and i would love to go in a union with finnland:-)
We'd love to take your oil! The biggest problem that I see so far is that some of the countries prefer others to it (Swedes seem to want Finns more than Danes in my experience, some Norweigians want to ignore Swedes and some Danes want to ignore Finns, and who cares about Iceland?), which can create... problems. However as the very lenghty proposal I gave a link to in OP illustrates the good stuff. Stronger economy, more influence and a far more capable military arm which is drawn from all nations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TW Teczka View Post
I've heard about idea of Nordic Union quite recently, on my post graduate study. Technically possible.

If I might play with political fiction, I can think of something different. What about forming some kind of hard core of northern EU? It would start in Austria, include Germany, Holland and whole Scandinavia. It would emit its own currency, thus allowing southern part of the EU keeping Euro. The EU would cease trying to pretend that it keeps comparable level of uniformity.
You might get some support for it. The opinion over here is that pretty much everyone south of the alps is leeching off of the northern half. Then again it really does become political fiction when we realize that it isn't really a monetary union anymore. The EU countries have burnt the bridges to their former currencies, and Brussels is pushing for more and more centralization without giving a damn if people really want it.

A problem with the proposed union would be that it would really be even more German dominated affair than it's now. Whilst Finns have a fairly positive opinion on Merkel in particular, we'd still like to have some say on how things go.

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The EU countries have burnt the bridges to their former currencies, and Brussels is pushing for more and more centralization without giving a damn if people really want it.
Under normal conditions if there was one country, elevated interest rates for gov bonds and economy choking with lack of cash (as it is for whole Mediterranean) the natural move would be a huge round of quantitative easing. However, the ECB (read: especially Bundesbank) is reluctant to do so because it would effectively mean guaranteeing debt of such countries. Result? Deepening economies contraction in southern countries. The only idea that the EU can think of that would both allow monetary intervention and not make Germans (Finns, etc.) panicked about whose debts they guarantee would be to introduce some supervision of problematic countries (its politely called deeper integration) and then flush the funds.

Blasting Brussels for not asking of permission of people is nicely sounding political argument, but it begs a question what really should be done instead.

You have choice of:
a) messy split of the EMU;
b) not bothering what people want and trying to sort out problems by deeper integration;
c) drifting.

So far mostly "c" was tried with mild hint of "b".

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A problem with the proposed union would be that it would really be even more German dominated affair than it's now. Whilst Finns have a fairly positive opinion on Merkel in particular, we'd still like to have some say on how things go.
So? As compromise we split Germans in to separate Bundeslands? Or you move more power to central level and elect the gov of the whole core in direct election?

Well, South Sudan has applied to be part of the Commonwealth, And both Mozambique and Rwanda have joined without being a former British colonial state.

I'm shocked with the creation of the Euro that Britain hasn't suggested a Commonwealth-wide currency.

A Northern EU doesn't solve the problem of German exports. A Commonwealth currency isn't appropriate, for entirely the same reasons the Euro was a big mistake: one monetary policy cannot cover such a diverse range of commerce without very tight political integration.
The reason we blast Brussels, TW, for not asking permission is far beyond a political argument alone. It goes to the heart of the false democracy of the EU. The unelected peers and the referenda used to legitimise it had no integrity and barely give any mandate to govern at all. To transfer/loss of the sovereignty of our nations should require the actual and direct consent of the people, not a slow leaking away of governance based on a 40 year old trade agreement.

The EU has not managed to fulfil any of it's promises or expectations. It is corrupt beyond belief with a vast array of bureaucrats paid well over their due they would expect in individual countries, inefficient and uneconomic to the heart with unaudited accounts and little oversight, a propaganda budget of several hundred million to promote it's own policies, not to mention the constant breaking and ignoring of fiscal rules.

To save it requires an honest inspection of which countries can actually abide by several core principles and then bringing those few (France, Germany Belgium and Netherlands most likely) into close integration.
The rate of change that has been expected is far two great, and to save the eastern part of the EU requires an entirely different arrangement. Possibly over the next few hundred years the areas can merge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TW Teczka View Post
So? As compromise we split Germans in to separate Bundeslands? Or you move more power to central level and elect the gov of the whole core in direct election?
You make some excellent points. In the end there is so little we can do if we don't start a fullscale revolution! Age of the Vikingr must start anew!

Hey, I'd love to welcome such nations as Bavaria, Saxony and Berlin-Brandenburg into the international community. I still doubt they'd like to break up into all the little Germanies again.




 

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