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Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Social Justice in Schools

   
Well the problem with "the small community takes care of it's own" is that in this case you do not appear to have been one of the "own" or maybe even "the small community".

This kind of charity is very selective, and personal. It relies on the familiarity of knowing something virtuous or moral about the beneficiary. In my opinion that makes the charity far less virtuous than anonymous charity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
I'm not trying to play the persecuted victim, simply pointing out how the whole "the small community takes care of it's own" has some gaping holes in it. Frankly as I see it turning it into a personal attack on me says more about you than anything, unless you are suggesting this *never* happens to *anyone*.
You said that community support and jobs are not available due to your religion as opposed to, (for example), a lack of a large and proactive social circle. I can't recall having seen the religion mentioned on any of the little micro-drives I've seen for a kid in chemo or some such. I'm not saying that it never happens to anyone - I'm saying you're barking up the wrong tree. It's not like "What's your religion?" is a question that gets dropped on too many employment forms.

And you wanting to turn it into a personal attack... Well, that kinda lends credence to the whole assumption of a persecution complex. I simply don't care about anyone here enough to insult or attack them. It's rather pointless.

in a small community you don't need "what is your religion" on an employment form, unless you are completely in te broom closet (to the point that no other living person knows) everyone knows.
And yes, when someone relates a deeply painful personal incident as an example of a point in a discussion on something like social justice and you decide to attack not the point of teh argument but teh credibility of the personal story with "prove you have been abused" that makes *you* an abuser to a lesser degree, and the attack *is* personal- litterally ad hominem instead of adressing the point of the argument, and all your statement really demonstrated is how much of a jackass you are capable of being.
So don't tell me you don't care enough to insult or attack a person here because your post stands testement to the contrary.

Funny. I grew up in a small town. Religion simply was not something people discussed there - and there were a handful of Wiccans. Not a one was ostracized for their beliefs. The worst they got was a couple of witch-burning jokes from me.

If you don't want something that's deeply painful examined, then don't bring it up. I don't share some of my deeply personal, deeply painful stories with complete strangers to make a point whilst arguing on the Internet, at least not without some manner of disclaimer.
It's not ad hominem - see, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your point. I want you to prove that you're simply not making this up. Otherwise, how can I trust what you have to say? You've certainly never before done me that courtesy.
You insulting me by calling me a jackass? That's an ad hominem attack. Me saying there might be another reason beyond your religion that you're passed over for employment? Not an ad hominem attack. Hell's bells, unemployment's pretty friggin' high. Lots of people are having trouble finding work.
... Okay, so my suggesting you have a persecution complex is an ad hominem attack. My bad.

No, no, I still don't care to insult you - if you find insult, you're looking for something that simply isn't there. I wish to understand what you are saying and collect the facts to draw my own conclusions. If you're going to play the victim and complain about being attacked because of that, then do not bring points like this up. Find another way to phrase it without making it so intensely personal to you.

I'm talking about events over the past 20 years, not just since 2008. And no I haven't documented out all the pain in my life for your purusal. You are willing to accept that it happened, then the "questioning" the validity of my own experience is nothing *but* an attack onmy person (BTW I didn't say you *are* a jackass, I said you had demonstrated your capacity to be one), if you doubt that such things exist you might check out the video "innocence lost". everybody else here managed to address my point without having to go to the personal issues regardless of whether you want to phrase it in terms of a 'persecution complex' or 'maybe there were other reasons you couldn't get a job. i'm glad you managed to somehow live in a small town where religion was *never* discussed, I lived in an area where it is advised to go to the right churches to network for finding a job. I lived in an area where at least two local producers (one of which is Coleman) had community wide known policies of only hiring Christians.
The pain from all of this is expressed primarilly in terms of anger- there are days I wish a tornado would wipe the whole place i came from off the map, and to be frank and honest when I first read your previous post I hoped for several seconds that one of those bullets you've been dodging in Iraq would find you. But if you want evidence of teh existance of discrimination check out the lawsuit against chick filet. As to teh rest no I cannot document and prove teh subtlety of community wide attitudes that everyone knows more than what I have done here- that is part of the point of personal testimony, that it brings to light something which is both pervasive and difficult or impossible to objectively demonstrate. The entire "can you prove any of this"- unless you are a lawyer and it were coming up in court to sue for damaged- is a slap in the face to *anyone* offering that kind of testimony. It is saying "I realize that you are relating your personal experience, but you are a liar and not to be trusted, so please prove your life story"

So when I cite things like the Taliban dumping bodies on the locations of airstrikes, but don't have links to prove it, why, that's a perfectly legitimate argument because it's my personal experience?
Or is it somehow different for you?

Yeah, you are doing little more then engaging in a personal attack on Silveroak. Dismissing silveroak's experiences as 'pursecution complexes' is a pretty dire one to.

Please, guys, time to back off on this, okay? I read these forums for ideas and to contribute to discussions, not to see the two of you going at it. Please take it private, because I'd hate to see the moderators close down this thread because you two cannot be civil to each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gygaxphobia View Post
This kind of charity is very selective, and personal. It relies on the familiarity of knowing something virtuous or moral about the beneficiary. In my opinion that makes the charity far less virtuous than anonymous charity.
I appreciate that you make an effort to be reasonable about this, but let's call a shovel a shovel.
This kind of charity is a popularity contest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
Yeah, you are doing little more then engaging in a personal attack on Silveroak. Dismissing silveroak's experiences as 'pursecution complexes' is a pretty dire one to.
I'm just giving as good as I get in this part of the forum - but I'll knock it off.





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