Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Sandy's political fallout

 
I think that most people are far too, well, normal in the US. They're unable to comprehend the big picture, don't support anything but the established, same as the old policies. That's why nothing changes. Period. In many fields, the public is resistant to change, and therefore neither Obama or Romney will do a thing to change ANYTHING. We honestly need something new and not even necessarily good to change the playing field. /endrant

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Originally Posted by Zelkon View Post
In many fields, the public is resistant to change, and therefore neither Obama or Romney will do a thing to change ANYTHING.
Obamacare.

i would agree, in general, for Chris Christie in 2016. Of course there are 4 years for the Democrats to pull up a comperable canidate, but given that Biden is the likely one to run...

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Originally Posted by Atlictoatl View Post
Voting for Romney because he is white is not the same thing as not voting for Obama because he is black. The former implies a choice based in familiarity and presumed shared values, the other is predominantly racist.

By the same token, African-Americans may vote for Obama because he is black. To suggest that is the same as a black American who refuses to vote for Romney because Romney is white is not accurate.

Arkaelis' point was that there are people voting for someone who is actively against their interests because they refuse to vote for a black man for President. That would be the same situation as blacks refusing to vote for a white candidate who was going to preserve the things most important to them, preferring an African-American candidate who was going to remove many of their government services.
To sum up, my response to this is frothing rage.


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Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
On topic: I think Sandy is actually giving Obama a boost in the polls.

It's also given me a look at the first Republican I've seen all campaign that I can respect in Chris Christie. You could hear jaws hit the floor in that interview with Fox, he pretty much said "to hell with politics, the people I work for need help." As long as he keeps to that attitude and doesn't revert to blindly following Romney, I wouldn't mind seeing him offer up for 2016.
Would it change your mind to learn he's one of the ones that the far right and the Tea Partiers support because of his general 'screw politics' attitude?


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Originally Posted by Atlictoatl View Post
This viewpoint doesn't allow for the efforts of politicians everywhere to obfuscate their corruption and ineptitude. You can hold the populace accountable to a degree, but we are not living in a society where we as citizens have ready access to full information about the activities of our politicians.

The media we rely upon for reporting are, in large part, bought and paid for by corporate interests, who are also the controlling interests in government. We have a Supreme Court willing to make rulings like Citizens United (and what more can a populace do about that short of electing a President who might be able to get better justices into the Supreme Court). We live in a society politically polarized and paralyzed by partisanship, which is fueled in large part by corporate interests.

It is not so simple to say that all of our problems rest at the feet of the populace. We the people are certainly responsible for getting ourselves out of this mess --- we're the only ones who can -- but we aren't wholly responsible for the mess, just as the public-at-large isn't ultimately to blame for the entirety of the financial collapse of a few years ago. There are other actors and they wield tremendous influence on the state of affairs in the this country and in the world.

To deny that is to be in fairly steep denial.
Whose fault is it that they rely on traditional media instead of alternate sources? Whose fault is it that they don't dig deeper on points? If I can get access to information, anyone can (excepting, y'know, classified stuff - but that very rarely impacts politics). I stress the public's responsibility as much as I do because I never see someone saying "Well, shoot, we voted for a real stinker - and have for the last eighty years - so what do you expect?", but instead blaming the politicians for doing what's simply in their natures as greedy, lying, soulless scum.

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Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
i would agree, in general, for Chris Christie in 2016. Of course there are 4 years for the Democrats to pull up a comperable canidate, but given that Biden is the likely one to run...
Is he, though? He's getting up in age (I know, not the oldest), and Hilary is leaving as SecState... perhaps taking a 4 year break to get ready?

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Would it change your mind to learn he's one of the ones that the far right and the Tea Partiers support because of his general 'screw politics' attitude?
No, as long as he learns from this experience that you get far more by actually doing and working than by asking for long form birth certificates. And stays away from the 'crazy' Republicans, of which there are many.

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Whose fault is it that they rely on traditional media instead of alternate sources? Whose fault is it that they don't dig deeper on points? If I can get access to information, anyone can (excepting, y'know, classified stuff - but that very rarely impacts politics). I stress the public's responsibility as much as I do because I never see someone saying "Well, shoot, we voted for a real stinker - and have for the last eighty years - so what do you expect?", but instead blaming the politicians for doing what's simply in their natures as greedy, lying, soulless scum.
The vast majority of people have neither your life experience nor your resources. Your life experience has taught you to be suspicious, critical, self-reliant, and yet also engaged, to the degree that you are a soldier of apparently high competence.

When people have children, too many jobs, not enough jobs, family in need of hospice, etc. they lack the time to "dig deeper on points", to seek out alternate media that they can trust, or to compile data from multiple sources. When people lack a suspicious and critical nature, they tend to accept things more at their face value. When they aren't self-reliant, they require others to assist them in their information discovery. When people lack engagement, they simply don't care.

You'll note that I did not say that people don't bear some responsibility. They may even bear a majority of responsibility. But it isn't as simple as that. There are other factors at play, including a corporatist agenda that is difficult to decipher in its inhumanity, its reach, and its influence.

Personally, I see your willingness to lump all the coal onto the populace to be not dissimilar from that populace's apathy towards making a change. IMO, the change that needs to be enacted is, in large part, change to our corporatist society, and directing the causality to the populace is willful misdirection at worst and naivete at best.

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
To sum up, my response to this is frothing rage.
My response to that is to suggest a rabies shot, which you can get through your government-sponsored healthcare.

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Originally Posted by Wippit Guud View Post
No, as long as he learns from this experience that you get far more by actually doing and working than by asking for long form birth certificates. And stays away from the 'crazy' Republicans, of which there are many.
Learns what, exactly? The guy seems to already have learned the lesson Blanco figured out the hard way during Katrina: Don't wait until after the fact to declare an emergency just for political points. If you look at his track record, 'doing and working' has been his main thing from the get-go.

You must have missed the discussion about calling other people crazy because they disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
You must have missed the discussion about calling other people crazy because they disagree with you.
I can't call people crazy anymore? Even when they are?





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