Profession was completely useless. In one of those 3.5 articles about skills, a WotC representative states that they did not expect any PCs to choose Profession as a skill since they were "professional adventurers."

I like this idea in regards to craft. NPCs (and PCs) can make 1/2 lvl + appropriate Mod in gold pieces per week of dedicated work.

If you need NPC services, it could be useful to know their skill level, especially if you need spell casting, but also for things like repairs. Or you could just not bother and assume that there is someone in town that will take care of it for you for the same price that anyone else would. I can see the appeal of both.

To make this clear: the only reason I am bringing up this stuff is to find out if 4th ed is a match for the playstyle of our group. The relative lack of non-combat proficiencies, the fact that the classes are completely defined by their combat abilities, the lack of the skill monkey role, the lack of negative racial modifiers, the addition of two races our group has a distaste for, the removal of a race we liked, the almost complete lack of normal attacks, etc. make it pretty clear that it is not. If someone buys the books, we will probably use it as a miniatures game, and it will probably be a good one. I am, however, the consummate Devil's advocate, and I wanted to see how other people had worked out the fluff to see if there was something that could work for us.

For your games, maybe. For the ones I was in, they were wonderful.

Again, depends on the game.

Even if they have no training in that discipline whatsoever? A high-level adventurer who has never even been told how to follow the grain in in a plank of wood is guaranteed to be a better carpenter than someone who has spent their whole life doing it? A high-level wizard who has never even been within a few feet of a forge is automatically an accomplished blacksmith?

Or are you saying they can pick a few crafts that they have worked into their background, but that they would not even be able to roll for other crafts?

Think of it as everyone getting maneuvers. There's really no such a thing in the world as "I hit you" from anyone trained in a fighting art; they always use a certain style, certain strikes. It's a bad example, but think of it like Tekken - everyone fights differently.

That was my idea. A craftsman who has a story to explain why he/she is a craftsman has skill set up in the same way as a PC - possibly two or even more, but they come from the backstory, not a set-in-stone progression that requires your 60-year-old master carpenter to have 20 levels of expert and 50 hit points.

I guess the underlying concept for this stuff in 4th is that you don't need to have whole systems of rules for this stuff. It can be story based. If you want rules and rolls, then they don't need to be tied to adventuring-type classes - they can be their own thing.

I see what you mean, but in general, a hit is a hit. Sure you have maneuvers, and sometimes you should do more than just hurt the other guy. I've practiced Arnis for a while now, and let me tell you, we learn lots of a maneuvers, but getting hit with a stick is still getting hit with a stick, no matter what path the stick takes to get there. I just feel that special moves should be, well, special.

And as far as the whole skill thing goes, it isn't must the profession/craft stuff that gets to me. Even for the straight adventuring skills, I hate the way they work. As adventurers level, they automatically get better at all of the adventuring skills. Sure, it makes it easier on the players, I understand that. Nobody likes failing a climb check, but the bookish wizard doesn't need to become a master athlete just because he is adventuring.

That may end up being the best way of handling it.

Yeah, but you only have 3 skills (4 if human, rogues is 4 or 5).

heh.
Level 30 Wizard with say, 12 Str (+1) would have a 16 (+15 for 1/2 level) in Athletics.

It'd take a level 20 (10 for 1/2 level) Fighter [A class that exemplifies athleticism mind you], trained (+5) and with at least 14 Str to outdo that.

That's one Athletic Old Man.

Apologies to SocraticCoaster, I forget that one of the reasons I love D&D is because the games can be completely different depending on well...anything.

Your DM can choose to get rid of the 1/2 lvl addition depending on the situation. Some crafts are based more on experience than overall talent.