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Primeval and polymorphing

   
Primeval and polymorphing

My caharacter is about to become a primeval and take an animal form (haven't decided yet).

The rules on polymorphing (wildshaping) are unclear at best and I also heard that they got errataed a while back.

Does anyone know what changes? To my knowledge:

AC changes to that of the monster.

HP stay the same

Strength changes.

BAB stays the same.

I gain abilities of the beast, but lose ability to speak and other things a beast can not do.

I also heal equal to my level, but do I also heal when I change back?

I should think that Wildshaping is pretty clear, given that its based of the spell Polymorph, in the case of Primeval there are some subtle changes as well:
  • All your
    Constitution, Strength and Dexterity
    physical ability scores are increased by a number equal to the creatures
    or 11 for uneven
    -10
  • You heal twice your level in hp
  • Your type remains the same
  • All extraordinary abilities not derived from class features are lost
  • You gain Natural AC of the creature
  • Can't speak
  • Your size increases to that of the creature
  • You gain any extraordinary attacks that the creature has, such as Rend or Swallow Whole.
No you don't heal when changing back.
Edit: Can't remember what else the Errata specifies that happens, there's been a lot for Polymorph and Co.

Whoa. You're making 1 assumption which is way out. Wildshape is not based on polymorph, its based on the Alternate Shape ability. And if you use the SRD, they aren't vague at all, so long as you follow a few links.

Which means:
  • The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. (If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.)
  • It gains the size of its new form.
  • The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarianís rage class feature).
  • The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
  • The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
  • The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
  • And this is the key one:
    The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
  • The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
  • Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
  • The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
  • The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
  • Any gear worn or carried by the creature that canít be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures canít wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

Which means that if you change into a bear, you're as strong, fast & tough as a bear, but as smart, wise & charismatic as your normal form.

So all that means (I'll work with a bear for the example):

HP stays the same.

AC recalculates, not necessarily to the AC of the monster (although it is likely that it will be the AC of the creature, just need to factor in stuff like Wild Armour & certain feats)

Str, Dex & Con become the same as your new form.

BAB stays the same, TAB recalcs.

You gain the bear's claws & bite, and the Ex abilities of the creature (not Su or Sp), so a bear gives you Improved Grab.

For healing, it says "Each time you wildshape", so only when you become the animal do you heal, as changing back doesn't cost you a wildshape use.

You lose the ability to speak.

The only real difference is that Alternate form means you drop gear, where wildshape melds it into your body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch View Post
You gain the bear's claws & bite, and the Ex abilities of the creature (not Su or Sp), so a bear gives you Improved Grab.
Just to nitpick...

It only gives you the (Ex) Special Attacks of the new form, not the Special Qualities. Scent, Blindsense, all the fun stuff...you get none of these. Some of them you can even explain away neatly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stam View Post
Just to nitpick...

It only gives you the (Ex) Special Attacks of the new form, not the Special Qualities. Scent, Blindsense, all the fun stuff...you get none of these. Some of them you can even explain away neatly.
A valid point Stam (I knew I had something wrong)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch View Post
And this is the key one:
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neraagile View Post
I should think that Wildshaping is pretty clear, given that its based of the spell Polymorph, in the case of Primeval there are some subtle changes as well:
I know why I said polymorph, because I never look at the SRD for that kind of stuff, I go directly back to the ph :/
which is stupid...
Read
prestige class from Frostburn
Primeval, it gives a bonus on your ability scores, as opposed to the normal alteration. But otherwise, all your other points stand.

Ah, a Frostburn PrC. Never had the chance to use them (not enough ice games), ergo I'd not seen that difference. Sounds interesting though, I may look at it though. I do like wildshaping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch View Post
Ah, a Frostburn PrC. Never had the chance to use them (not enough ice games), ergo I'd not seen that difference. Sounds interesting though, I may look at it though. I do like wildshaping.
Primeval also gives a bonus to these adjustments the more levels you take in the PrC. In addition to making the base critter's natural armor increase.

You also end up gaining Low-light Vision, Scent, and Fast Movement.

A 'regression' that ends up giving +3 Str/Dex/Con/Wis and -3 Int/Cha.

The capstone ability turns you into a magical beast, DR 10/magic, and your natural weapons count as magic weapons vs DR.





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