Gaming Discussion

For all things gaming related.


4e Stat Rolling vs. Buying

   
4e Stat Rolling vs. Buying

Stolen from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMorganes View Post
eep!

Yeah... bad, bad, bad for 4E. The core game system appears built around minimizing ability score penalties. Default array in 3.5 included an 8; 4E's has 10 as the lowest score. Even "dumping" something to 8 via point buy has a minimal impact, what with the either/or pairing for Defense Values.
I've just allowed my players to roll the stats for their 4e characters and choose to either keep their rolls or point-buy. I'm a bit nervous about having done so, in terms of balance -- not because of the ability score penalties, but because of the bonuses.

In my limited experience designing 4e characters, there appears to be a tangible rewards trade-off with point-buy. Do I max out my primary stat and accept low-to-middling secondary and tertiary stats? How does doing so affect my feat selection at later stages, or auxiliary additions to my damage output? Do I choose to be a little more moderate with my primary stat, and so have better secondary and tertiary stats?

In my new game, we have a brutish rogue with a very high DEX and STR and quite decent CHA. His damage output is even higher than it normally is for a rogue ... on the order of +9 damage when all three stats can be used in a situation (along with [W] damage and +2d6 sneak attack damage). Compared to the more standard +6-7 or less extra damage most brutish rogues would have, I wonder what effect this might have on my encounter balance, especially when multiplied across a few other players.

Any thoughts on the perils of allowing rather high attributes in 4e?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlictoatl View Post
Any thoughts on the perils of allowing rather high attributes in 4e?
Shouldn't be too problematic, if you simply ramp up the challenges accordingly to keep things interesting. The party will level up slightly faster, but then again they are fighting against harder encounters.

If you think that the party is leveling up too quickly look over the suggestions on slowing the leveling down, as discussed in the DMG.

I mean, if we are only talking about one or two high ability scores per' character, then I wouldn't call it catastropic. There are plenty of ways to make using those higher scores entertaining by offering tougher challenges specifically targetted at those ability scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telperion View Post
Shouldn't be too problematic, if you simply ramp up the challenges accordingly to keep things interesting. The party will level up slightly faster, but then again they are fighting against harder encounters.

If you think that the party is leveling up too quickly look over the suggestions on slowing the leveling down, as discussed in the DMG.

I mean, if we are only talking about one or two high ability scores per' character, then I wouldn't call it catastropic. There are plenty of ways to make using those higher scores entertaining by offering tougher challenges specifically targetted at those ability scores.
I presume you actually mean monster defenses specifically targeted at defending against the powers that are supplemented by said score and / or monster with powers that can specifically target defenses not boosted by said ability scores? In other words, be a bit devious?

Personally, I would worry. As a DM letting that build through was a mistake, UNLESS everyone else in the party is on par Stat and Ability wise. If so the solution is simple, scale up encounters and throw in more skill challenges.

Rollings Stats to build a character seems to be
And for the easy of PbP I think it is a good idea not to allow rolls on stats
going away, so most people are using either standard arrays or the 22 point buy from PHB.

Before racial adjustments 18 is the highest stat a character can have no matter what. IF they are higher then you have a problem.
Ancient Red Dragon with a vendette against his bloodline... give the players an option to protect him or let the dragon spare them... evil but proves the point - NO Muchikin gamers allowed.
NERF the cheater.

With a point buy, 18 is the best stat you can
16 point out of your 22... 18 if you raise the 8 stat to 18.
buy. Next best stat you could get if you buy the 18 can only be a
5 points out of the remaining 6... the you have 1 point left to raise a 10 to 11 or that 8 to a 9
14, SO UNLESS you allow them to sell back 2 points to
VERY BAD IDEA. DO NOT ALLOW THIS!!!
lower a 10 to an 8, then
12 points, with 6 left and +2 for lowering each remaining 10 to an 8 that makes you 12 points... BAD thing here is every stat is 8 except for two and then you have a savant, completely below normal in every respect except for one or two limited areas. AND IF they want to do that and you are willing to let them, MAKE them RP it or penalize them hard.
17 is the next best stat. In BOTH cases they should have a very neglected tertiary stat.

THAT SAID if you as DM have allowed for higher powered characters though rolls or what ever, then you need to be willing and able to change the situation so that the game is still challenging and fun. Like what was said, lower exp gains and make leveling requirements higher. Scale combat, and include more skill challenges.

When at all possible I myself prefer and advocate the use of point-buy. I have played in 3,5 campaigns where we rolled and that has resulted in some very pronounced differences in stats.

One game I am currently in has the rest of the group see mostly average stats (slightly above though) and then there's me with three 18s, one 14, one 12, and a 9.
Not that I'm complaining right there, but there's plenty other times I have rolled crap but just above the automatic re-roll line.


Point-buy usually results in more happy players.
Unless you roll sky high, but that does not make the whole team happy.

Characters with high stats in 4E are the same as in any other edition of D&D. They're more powerful than characters with average stats. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in order to challenge the players you may need to adjust your encounters appropriately.

I rather lament that we no longer roll hitpoints...there was always that rush whether you would roll high or not.

And then there was that brooding agony of knowing you could do nothing about that 1 you rolled on yer d8.

The second time in a row.

Nothing except hoping the DM 'sneezed' and didn't see your die roll.

Second time in a row....ouch.




 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Blog   Myth-Weavers Status