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Arcane Mastery Implement

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrdkudzu View Post
I don't see how you'd keep Toughness if you retrained your Ranger combat style. It's part and parcel of that style so it would stay as long as you were Two-Blade and as soon as you retrained to Ranged you'd lose it.
As far as I've seen in my many years of playing D&D, it's not possible to have feats taken away from you, unless the DM house-rules it. You get toughness from "Two-Blade style" for free, but just because you retrain your style, shouldn't mean you get that feat taken away from you. It would be permanently taking away at least 5 (number depends on level)
hit points away from your character, which isn't possible to do by retraining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sithobi1 View Post
Except, you know, by taking the feat and then retraining it. Which is basically what you're doing here.
Nope. Once you get a feat, you get the feat. It specifically says, "You get toughness as a bonus feat" for taking two-blade style. Feats can't be taken away by retraining, unless the DM says so. Not to mention the fact that you can't retrain class features, so why does it matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunStride View Post
Nope. Once you get a feat, you get the feat. It specifically says, "You get toughness as a bonus feat" for taking two-blade style. Feats can't be taken away by retraining, unless the DM says so.
Or unless the book says so. Which it does. Like Sithobi said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunStride View Post
As far as I've seen in my many years of playing D&D, it's not possible to have feats taken away from you
Maybe not taken away, but even in 3,5 you could replace them. Retraining. It was in PHB2 if I recall correctly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SunStride View Post
Not to mention the fact that you can't retrain class features, so why does it matter?
There was that of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
Maybe not taken away, but even in 3,5 you could replace them. Retraining. It was in PHB2 if I recall correctly.
Does mean that you have the option of retraining the feat you gain from your combat path? For example, could a character take the archery combat style and then retrain Defensive Mobility? This could be really useful if someone wanted to play a Battlefield Archer or Beast Stalker, but didn't really want Defensive Mobility. I'm pretty sure I prefer Toughness over Defensive Mobility even for an archer. So would it be possible to swap the feats at level 2 through retraining? (I wouldn't get any other benefit of the Two-weapon fighting style, but I'd have Toughness and access to Battlefield Archer or Beast Stalker).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
Or unless the book says so. Which it does. Like Sithobi said.
Show me the exact page number and paragraph where it says you can lose feats, and I'll believe you. And when I say "lose", I mean actually lose it, not retrain and/or replace it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
Maybe not taken away, but even in 3,5 you could replace them. Retraining. It was in PHB2 if I recall correctly.
Yes, you can retrain / replace them, but if it were ever possible to "retrain" a class feature, you technically wouldn't be "retraining" the bonus feat.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
There was that of course.
There's always been that. Like I said, most of this stuff is left up to the DM, except the things the PHB says you can actually retrain. But even then, the DM could house-rule and say "no retraining whatsoever," if and when he wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamahl1001 View Post
Does mean that you have the option of retraining the feat you gain from your combat path? For example, could a character take the archery combat style and then retrain Defensive Mobility? This could be really useful if someone wanted to play a Battlefield Archer or Beast Stalker, but didn't really want Defensive Mobility. I'm pretty sure I prefer Toughness over Defensive Mobility even for an archer. So would it be possible to swap the feats at level 2 through retraining? (I wouldn't get any other benefit of the Two-weapon fighting style, but I'd have Toughness and access to Battlefield Archer or Beast Stalker).
As long as the PHB says you can retrain feats, then yes, you can technically retrain a feat you get from a class feature. Honestly, defensive mobility isn't one of the best, but definitely not the worst feat. So, in my opinion, I'd take the archer style, take the bonus Defensive Mobility, then just take Toughness as your first level feat. This way, you have both, so you can roam the battlefield more freely with higher AC against o.a. and more hit points.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4E PHB
You
can’t replace a feat if it’s a prerequisite for any other
attribute you have (another feat or a paragon path, for
example), or if the feat is a feature of your class, path,
or destiny (as the Ritual Caster feat is a class feature
for wizards). You can replace heroic tier feats (see page
193) with higher-tier feats, but only one at a time, once
per level you gain. For instance, at 11th level, you gain
one feat and you can also retrain one of your heroic
tier feats, gaining a paragon tier feat in its place. At
12th level you can do the same, so you can potentially
have four paragon tier feats at 12th level. (You might
find that many of your heroic tier feats
Sorry I completely told you wrong on the earlier paragraph. You can't retrain class feature feats, so your best bet is to stick with one ranger style or the other, then take the bonus feat you didn't get as your first level feat instead.

If you could retrain class features, there's no reason why retraining a class feature wouldn't retrain the feat that goes with it, because the feat is part of the class feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sithobi1 View Post
If you could retrain class features, there's no reason why retraining a class feature wouldn't retrain the feat that goes with it, because the feat is part of the class feature.
Like I told Core, show me page numbers and paragraphs or your words mean nothing. Not trying to be mean, but you are trying to argue a point that doesn't make sense.

There is no page number because it's part of a theoretical house rule. However, logically, losing a class feature causes you to lose the entire class feature, not just part of it.




 

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