From the 3.5 FAQ Re: Mirror Image:

I think that is the easiest way. Although the other way (tracking what occupies which squares) might be more interesting/fun for some people.

If you use it the way FAQ says, when the real caster provokes an AoO (or gets attacked at any other time) just decide randomly if the opponent hits the caster or an image (For example: The caster has 5 images up, plus herself. Roll 1d6, if it lands on 1, the opponent hits the real caster).

Interesting question, after taking a look at things, it seems like they're backwards. It should be immobolized and then stunned, though with an stunned character, if they have any free actions that allow them to move (of which there are a few) the immobilized would lock them down...so it seems like the secondary effect would be very specific in nature...personally I'd probably houserule that it switches, first immobolized then stunned.

You only save against one effect per round and thus stacking multiple effects means that something will stick.

No, you save against all effects every round Irdkudzu

Do you save against 'save ends both' things with one roll or two? Maybe this is the source of the misunderstanding for me. If it were two rolls, then conceivably you could make your save vs. stun and still be immobilized.

I've always interpretted Save ends both to mean that you save and it ends both...

Bad design, and normally the extra effects would be redundant but in some cases as Kitsune suggested stunning doesn't always mean the monster can't do anything. Hydras and Ettins are examples of such but I'm pretty sure they're the only ones. Also most powers either slide (not affected by immobilize) or grant extra actions like attacks as free actions (which a stunned creature can't take because they are actions.) I'm not sure whether or not the War Devil's ability would apply even to a stunned creature, by RAW, but would be happy to house-rule that it doesn't.

In conclusion, while there exist cases where this overlap of conditions would have some effect, those cases are rare enough that I think he was right to rule that they were redundant. Adding ongoing damage might not have been the best solution though. Splitting it up into two saving throws might have done the trick (still pretty weak though), because then the enemy might save against one and not the other. For Cruel Cage of Steel (all effects end after one round) knocking the enemy prone may have been a better option than making him weakened.

Page 277 of the PHB is the ever-handy resource for every condition.

If "(save ends both)" implies more than one saving throw is made then I've been reading it wrong all this time. I don't think that's the case because the general rule is:

PHB Page 57

If a “Hit” (or “Effect”) entry contains “(save ends)” or “(save ends both),” the indicated consequence of the successful attack persists until the target makes a successful saving throw.

Note the singular form "a [...] throw". That fits with the sensible English reading of "both." However I couldn't find any "(save ends each)" conditions.

I've always thought that each effect required it's own save. A good example of this it the wizard daily sleep, which slows a creature, then if it fails it's save it falls asleep. If that creature then makes it save vs. sleep during the next rounds does the slow also go away?

I've been playing them as two different effects that require two different saves.

I am sorry. You are correct. I just checked PHB 279. However, you have to roll a different save versus each effect so having multiple effects stacked up means that one roll will not cancel them all.

According to my DM screen you can take free actions while stunned.


That's the way that I've run it, yes.