Gaming Discussion

For all things gaming related.


Quick questions and answers

   
It's me again guys! Please don't get mad, I just need a ruling on a combo for D&D4e.

Supreme Skirmisher's Bow's Encounter power reads
Power (Encounter): Free Action. Trigger: You make a ranged basic attack using this weapon. Effect: You make a ranged at will attack using this weapon instead

Now Clever Shot reads
At-Will * Martial
Standard Action Personal
Effect: You make a ranged basic attack with a weapon. If the attack hits, the target is also subject to one of the following effects of your choice....


Would it be legal to, upon being granted the ranged basic attack from Clever Shot, to use the Bow's encounter power to use Twin Strike instead? And if so, can I apply the slide, prone, or slowed effects of Clever Shot twice to a single target if I hit it with both attacks from Twin-Strike, or two targets if I target two? So for example could I use this combo to slide a creature twice, or slide it then knock it prone, or knock prone two different creatures, or slide two different creatures?

Since the power is depending on a single attack, the effect would only ever happen once, but it could possibly hit multiple people.

Thus, if you target two people and hit them both, they could both be slid/knocked prone/slowed, but if you hit only one, regardless of how many times you hit it, you only apply one effect.

I believe it would be legal to use Twin Strike in those circumstances.

The wording of Clever Shot could be construed to apply only one effect to a single target if you hit it twice with Twin Strike, since Clever Shot seems to apply a single additional effect/condition to a target that the attack hits. However, this reading (and any reading, as I understand them) would allow you to apply two separate effects to two separate targets since each one would count independently as a target hit by your attack. That would be the strict wording.

It seems to me that Clever Shot could also (if construed loosely) allow you to apply two effects to a single target if your Twin Strike hits the same target twice. I hate to say something like "ask your DM," but...ask your DM. FWIW, I think it's a reasonable interpretation of Clever Shot even if I don't think it's the strictest interpretation of it. If your DM is one who likes to side with the players, it's likely that you'll get your combo.

Question:
What are the best advantages you can get through 4e themes for a rogue? Mainly the direct bonuses, not the utility powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus75 View Post
It's me again guys! Please don't get mad, I just need a ruling on a combo for D&D4e.

Supreme Skirmisher's Bow's Encounter power reads
Power (Encounter): Free Action. Trigger: You make a ranged basic attack using this weapon. Effect: You make a ranged at will attack using this weapon instead

Now Clever Shot reads
At-Will * Martial
Standard Action Personal
Effect: You make a ranged basic attack with a weapon. If the attack hits, the target is also subject to one of the following effects of your choice....


Would it be legal to, upon being granted the ranged basic attack from Clever Shot, to use the Bow's encounter power to use Twin Strike instead? And if so, can I apply the slide, prone, or slowed effects of Clever Shot twice to a single target if I hit it with both attacks from Twin-Strike, or two targets if I target two? So for example could I use this combo to slide a creature twice, or slide it then knock it prone, or knock prone two different creatures, or slide two different creatures?
Clever Shot uses a Ranged Basic Attack as the base for its effect. The bow's encounter power triggers when you make a Ranged Basic Attack, allowing you to use an At-Will attack instead of the RBA. Yes, you can use Twin Strike here.

I'm going to part with Sithobi and Polkabear for the rest.That the bow's power doesn't say you make an At-Will attack in place of your RBA. It says you make one instead of an RBA. Clever Shot's secondary effect is predicated by the use of an Ranged Basic Attack. Twin Strike is NOT a Ranged Basic Attack. As such, I would rule you can't buff Twin Strike as you describe, even as an encounter power. Getting TWO attacks in place of one is quite enough of a boost, thank you.

Overall, I think you'd be better off leveraging the party Warlord's ability to grant out-of-turn RBAs to use Clever Shot or Rapid Shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMorganes View Post
Clever Shot uses a Ranged Basic Attack as the base for its effect. The bow's encounter power triggers when you make a Ranged Basic Attack, allowing you to use an At-Will attack instead of the RBA. Yes, you can use Twin Strike here.

I'm going to part with Sithobi and Polkabear for the rest.That the bow's power doesn't say you make an At-Will attack in place of your RBA. It says you make one instead of an RBA. Clever Shot's secondary effect is predicated by the use of an Ranged Basic Attack. Twin Strike is NOT a Ranged Basic Attack. As such, I would rule you can't buff Twin Strike as you describe, even as an encounter power. Getting TWO attacks in place of one is quite enough of a boost, thank you.

Overall, I think you'd be better off leveraging the party Warlord's ability to grant out-of-turn RBAs to use Clever Shot or Rapid Shot.
Would you then assert that if you used the encounter power when granted an RBA that you could not get any bonuses from the Warlord's power on that Twin Strike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerim View Post
Question:
What are the best advantages you can get through 4e themes for a rogue? Mainly the direct bonuses, not the utility powers.
There are a host of 'em. Remember that themes are not class-specific. Some themes may scream "ROGUE!" ... but nothing stops a rogue from taking the Knight Hospitaler theme.

With that in mind, you'll need to define the "advantages" you're looking for. In general you get skill bonuses or a useful attack power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sithobi1 View Post
Would you then assert that if you used the encounter power when granted an RBA that you could not get any bonuses from the Warlord's power on that Twin Strike?
I see where you're coming from there, Sith - that using the bow to make an At-Will would also negate any attack bonuses from the Warlord because the attack isn't an RBA. I would say, "Show me the warlord power that grants a bonus to an RBA." Commander's Strike applies only to melee basic attacks, and Direct the Strike doesn't provide any bonuses to the out-of-turn attack.

By "direct bonuses," I expect that you mean the stuff that's automatic and not dependent on choosing a level-specific alternative utility power.

Note that I haven't ever--ever--played a rogue; but from what I understand, the following themes might be useful:
  • Bregan D'aerthe Mercenary gives three useful features: a minor action to gain CA (which rogues like), a don't-attack-me power for when your stealth gets blown by a high Perception check, and the ability to use a Bluff feint as a minor action (which makes it useful for gaining CA).
  • Pack Outcast gives permanent CA against enemies adjacent to you (which just might happen to be kinda-sorta handy for a rogue). I'm pretty sure that there's another theme that is almost identical to this one, but the name of it escapes me.
  • Trapsmith gives you a bonus to Thievery checks, and the encounter power gives CA for an enemy moving adjacent to you.
  • Ironwrought helps your melee attacks hit.
  • Stormraider's lvl 10 feature makes flanking much easier.
  • Guttersnipe - The cost reduction for gear is almost always welcome. (But that one's not rogue-specific.)
  • Alchemist can be useful, depending on whether your DM lets you get creative with well-chosen alchemy items. (Again, it's not rogue-specific, but it might be more handy to a rogue than, say, to a wizard whose powers might overlap with a lot of alchemical items.)

However, to answer Sithobi's question directly:

My gut says the warlord instance isn't a big deal, where the Ranger bow/Clever Shot cheese - even as an encounter power - would be. To know for sure, I'd need to see it in play.





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Myth-Weavers Status