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Can I teleport an enemy straight up?

   
Can I teleport an enemy straight up?

I didn't know if this was a "quick question" because I thought it might spawn some debate, so here goes.

Can I teleport an enemy straight up into open air? Example power:
Sequestering StrikeSequestering Strike Avenger Attack 3
Your attack slices into your foe and through the fabric of space, hurtling both you and that foe a short distance away.
Encounter ✦ Divine, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target:
One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage, and you teleport the target 2 squares. You then teleport to a space adjacent
to the target.
Censure of Pursuit: The number of squares you teleport the target equals 1 + your Dexterity modifier.

Simple enough right? But in a game where I used it to teleport myself and an enemy onto a roof, someone said, "Why didn't you just teleport him just next to the edge of the roof, and yourself onto the edge of the roof? Or straight up into the sky and the wizard can catch you with Feather Fall."

I said that according to the rules for Teleport, you can do that, and according to the rules for forced movement (Push, Pull, Slide) you can't. The rules for teleportation assume that you're teleporting yourself.
TeleportationTeleportation
Many powers and rituals allow you to teleport—to move instantaneously from one point to another. Unless a power or a ritual specifies otherwise, teleportation follows these rules.
TELEPORTATION
Line of Sight: You have to be able to see your destination.
No Line of Effect: You can teleport to a place you can see even if you don’t have line of effect to it.
No Opportunity Attacks: Your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
Destination: Your destination must be a space you can occupy without squeezing.
Instantaneous: When you teleport, you disappear from the space you occupy and immediately appear in a new space you choose. Creatures, objects, and terrain between you and your destination don’t hinder your movement in any way.
(And a bit about being immobilized that doesn't matter here.) You can occupy open space without squeezing - can't you?

However, here's what it says about forced movement:

Finally, some monster powers specifically say whether they can or can't move enemies into an unsafe space. Example, Eladrin Twilight Enchanter has this power:
Teleporting BoltR Teleporting Bolt (standard; at-will) ✦ Teleportation
Ranged 10; +12 vs. Reflex; 1d8 + 2 damage, and the target is teleported up to 3 squares. The target cannot be teleported into an unsafe space.

How do you interpret these rules?

I'm going to say no, you cannot teleport an enemy up into empty air.

Falling damage in 4E is a bit more drastic than in previous editions, clocking in at 1d10 points per 10' you fall. That's an extra 1d10 damage per 2 squares teleported - and most certainly NOT within the typical damage range of a 3rd level Encounter power. Worse, the Avenger must teleport to an adjacent square. If you teleport the target 4 squares straight up, you must also teleport up. Then both of you take falling damage.

For the most part, tactical movement in 4E is still very much two-dimensional. Flying doesn't typically happen at all until Paragon levels, and even then you must typically land at the end of the movement. If the terrain allows you to move up, and your teleport has the range to get to, say, a rooftop, fine. But I think it's contrary to the spirit of things to teleport enemies into thin air. There's no sport in it, no dramatic tension. Just *bamf* and you fall to your death down a 100' gorge.

Don't forget ... what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the PCs can teleport enemies into empty space, enemies can teleport the PCs into empty space. If everyone at the table is OK with this, and thinks it adds an element of fun to the game, then go for it. Otherwise, I think it's best to have teleport effects end on solid terrain.

I'm not positive, but due to the teleportation power you quoted, I think that the idea is sound, and a justified use of the power. If the situation were set-up such that you could teleport him to the edge of a roof and yourself to the roof, it would be legal. He would, however, have a chance to make either a save or an acrobatics check to catch himsefl (not sure which I would rather do...probably acrobatics).

I disagree that this would remove the tension, I think that is a creative use of the power.

I'm fairly sure Teleportation includes a clause somewhere - you can only teleport someone to solid ground, i.e. you can't teleport anyone up (unless they're able to fly).

Avenger is great fun. I'm currently in a game where I did exactly this - teleporting up the roof, caught the enemy, and teleported both him and I a few squares off the roof - he's in open air. And my axe happened to critted... and he died in open air.

Straight up would be even better. I'd personally allow it once or twice. Continuing using power this way makes it boring, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMorganes View Post
Don't forget ... what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the PCs can teleport enemies into empty space, enemies can teleport the PCs into empty space. If everyone at the table is OK with this, and thinks it adds an element of fun to the game, then go for it. Otherwise, I think it's best to have teleport effects end on solid terrain.
Bingo! I tend to not argue this too much with players. If they want to get hard nosed and debate
Which is nearly always some for of, well "RAW doesn't specifically state that I can't" argument, which does not equal RAW stating that you can... but that's a different discussion
their interpretation of RAW rather that what appears to be the most obvious RAI... I'll just save it in my quiver and
Note, that does NOT mean I get pissy if someone legitimately thwarts my plans by being clever and / or lucky... danged swan-diving swordsman
flip it back on them.

D&D 3.5 made clear that summining spells have to summon a creature onto a surface than can support it. The same logic applies here.

I mean seriously, this is the same kind of silly rules abuse as "I create water in his lungs".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artistshipper View Post
D&D 3.5 made clear that summining spells have to summon a creature onto a surface than can support it. The same logic applies here.

I mean seriously, this is the same kind of silly rules abuse as "I create water in his lungs".
3.5 rules do NOT apply to 4e. I don't know what else to say here, except to reiterate that RAW allows it, but many DMs will not.




 

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