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So it's almost four in the morning and I should definitely be sleeping but apparently my brain is too active for that, with that in mind please don't burn me as a heretic for even considering the following. I've recently gotten back into Magic the Gathering and love the talk of how you, the player, are the Planeswalker able to explore different Planes and test yourself against others like you. I've looked all about for a RPG with these kinds of qualities and although D&D can involve such a thing (I'm using it as an example as it's the system I'm most familiar with) it's just not the same. So I've been writing down a few bits and pieces for the last half-an-hour trying to put together something fairly balanced (fairly because Planeswalkers, even powered down as they are now, are quite powerful magicians) that I'm planning on working on to try and flesh out more and more into something workable. What I'm after is criticism, comments, love & adoration (I don't expect the latter two, just FYI) even an offer or two to help test the class out at a later date.

Just a note, it's designed to be used in a D&D 3.5e or perhaps even Pathfinder system. I will be detailing two different types of Mana use (one for general use, another for a Clash of the Titans duel between Planeswalkers) and as such it's mainly meant to function alongside other classes and not be as powerful as they're regarded as being.

The above is more like design notes than a finished product, posted for some feedback and suggestions while I work on the end product. I think more class features may need to be added (or not; they already have more than a generic wizard, access to more spells, more spells per day and more bonus feats). There definitely need to be more Planeswalker related feats but I'm not sure what yet... maybe one to reduce the cost of a favored Mana type at mid-to-high levels?

I like the idea, but I think I might do it differently. I'm working on whipping up some details, but I'd work it as a Wizard prestige class.

You know what, as soon as I saw the thread name, I knew MtG was involved.

I've also been trying to find a way to make a balanced Planeswalker for D&D, but I've found that if you accurately represent a planeswalker like Gideon, Bolas or Elspeth, then its too strong for D&D, and if you make something that's reasonable for D&D, then there are CMC-6 creatures with higher power levels.

Originally Posted by Ramael View Post
I like the idea, but I think I might do it differently. I'm working on whipping up some details, but I'd work it as a Wizard prestige class.
The problem is that, as I see this, its trying to interpret the MtG planeswalkers. Thing is that not all MtG planeswalkers are wizards (indeed more aren't than are).

Nicol Bolas is an Elder Dragon
Chandra Nalaar is a Pyromancer
Jace is a Mindsculptor (something like a psion)
Elspeth & Gideon are more like warriors than mages.
Garruk & Sarkhan 1.0 is closer to a druid.
Sarkhan 2.0 is more like the anti-druid (ur priest?)
Tezzeret is an Artificer
Ajani is more a shaman
Liliana is a Necromancer
Nissa's an Elf Elder
Sorin's a Vampire

I think that a PrC is the way to go, but I think it'd have to be more generic than a Wizard PrC. Possibly something that needs stuff like Know (Planes), Spellcraft & a minimum level.

And, yes, I'm an MtG addict, indeed its one of the reasons I haven't been on the Weave much this last year. My mates all play MtG to some extent, where very few are into D&D, so MtG rules all. Indeed, we're going on holiday to Amsterdam in September, mainly to attend the MtG pro tour.

haha I play MtG as well, but I think the discussion was not so much as translating MtG characters as creating a class that FEELS like playing magic IN dnd. I suggest a wizard PrC because of the spellbook. Easily translatable into cards. The way I'd go about it is what I'd like to call a reboot class. You have to have so many qualifying stats that your op-ness fits in. Meaning to become a level one planeswalker you have to play up to a level seven wizard. that way the rest of the world and party can match.

My ideas:
Reboot Prestige Class: All earlier class abilities are lost (generally speaking). Meaning I don't want it to be the stereotypical PrC where it stacks with everything prior. This becomes your new way of life so to speak. You have to do a quest or commit yourself to study that unlocks such a drastic understanding that you are forever changed. No longer a wizard, but a Planeswalker.

Mana: First level PW chooses a mana color. That is what it has available. The colors I think should also partially relate to the spell schools (Illusion-Blue, Necromancy-Black, etc) but not entirely as some cross over is needed.
At every odd level the PW can choose to dedicate itself to mastering a new mana color. Sort of like the ancient daisho of the samurai in Oriental Adventures. Sacrifice is required, but rewarded. PW can only cast the color they have available (as well as colorless)

Mana Generation: Every turn the PW can sacrifice a move action to add a mana to her mana pool. Mana is regenerative, meaning once you spend it, it "untaps" the following turn. Playing the BIG spells still takes time. and if you are on the run you are "mana screwed" while unable to add mana.

Deck: the level of spells known at the time you take the PW class is your deck size. i haven't decided if your deck will grow as you level. Perhaps, but potentially at a slower rate than wizards gain spells, maybe not.
1) Like a spellbook, what is in the deck is IN the deck. Not like a cleric who preps a different spell list everyday.
2) But I am open to that idea. If so, a PW must craft a deck at the start of everyday making spellcraft checks against the levels of spells. Cards unplayed would be unable to be recrafted until they were spent.

Combat: Instants can be played as reactions. Two spells as standard action: creatures, sorceries or enchanments. PW must command creature spells. A PW can be hit in direct combat, but would hopefully keep creatures as protection.

I have so many thoughts about this they are all trying to come out at once. It is probably gibberish. But main thing I want an opinion on is the deck.
Should you be stuck with the deck you construct until you gain new cards? If so, should it refresh after combat like Force Powers in SW Saga? Should there be a way to completely dismantle your deck to make a new from scratch (perhaps that is the choice between a new color or a new deck)?

I kinda like parts of that concept, but the idea of losing all the class levels bothers me. After all, Tezz can still artifice, and if anything it would seem that Jace has only gotten stronger since Lorwyn (unless TMS's price tag is lying to us... god I hate these chase cards. I only started playing in Conflux, and yet I still remember when the most expensive cards in standard were bitterblossom & elspeth... yet you could get a playset of either for the price of 1 Jace TMS, and still have enough change for lunch)... and then there is the recent butchery to extended that came 2 weeks after I got my playset of Dark Depths & the key part of the hypergenesis shell... but I digress & if I don't get off it, I'll start ranting, and if I rant, this post will be the longest in weave history.

I think that a class may be the wrong way to go with this. My gut suggests that a planeswalker isn't a class at all. To me, it seems more like an acquired template. There are classes like God-Blooded that you can acquire by completing several conditions. This seems a lot more like a planeswalker than a class does. For one thing, it seems less arbitary and more flexible.

After all, Garruk was a powerful druid (by D&D classes anyway) before his spark got going. Now he's a planeswalker, and all it seems to have done is given him the ability to bend the planes for the purposes of travel & ramped his pre-existing powers to a whole new league. Elspeth & Gideon can still wail on people with a sword/whip-fist-tentacle-thing, and bolas... well bolas is bolas. He needs no introduction, yet he will always get one, because he is Nicol Freaking Bolas, 4th in the heirarchy of badass bad guys after Emrakul, Kozilek & Ulamog (numbers 1, 2 & 3 respectively)...

Now there's an idea... D&D eldrazi... *laugh's insanely & vanishes in a puff of purple smoke leaving a heap of eldrazi spawn behind*

Yet again I'm not talking about recreating characters but rather emulating the play style. It wouldn't be lost class levels but rather a drastic change in play styles. So instead of playing like a 7th level wizard and a 1st level pw you'd just be a first level pw But with the power of an 8th level character. Mainly its caster levels that pose a problem. Having two firms of spell casting completely ruins the feel of the play style. Then again the prerequisites would be that of spell casters.
I think you are too literally trying to make a plane walker. I'm just trying to make a class that plays magic in dnd.

Hmm... then we're definitely on different concepts here. But I think that I could actually see the two as complimentary. I don't think your idea represents PW's, it represents the broader game, where mine is the actual PW's. So while mine could only really represent people like Garruk, Liliana & Bolas, yours would cover far more, everyone from Mayael & Sharuum to Argus Kos, Akroma, Hanna, The Evincars... you know, the people who use magic but don't planeswalk (or at least not by their own integral-planeswalker spark).

A class that gives magic-deck like casting, which is easiest for mages to get into, and an aquired template that lets non-mages get into it or boosts mages that gain it. That way, most PW's are mages (after all, Chandra, Jace, Ajani, Bolas, Garruk, Nissa, Sorin & Tezz were all mages before getting a spark. It was only really Sarkhan, Elspeth, & Gideon who had no notable magic before their spark awoke), but you can still get melee classes getting into it, just not as often.

I think I shall have to ponder. The idea of casting Warp World in D&D appeals to me more than you can comprehend.

Hahaha. Yeah I was more interested in representing the actual players. Planeswalking never really comes up in game unless you're playing planeschase.

Originally Posted by Ramael View Post
Hahaha. Yeah I was more interested in representing the actual players. Planeswalking never really comes up in game unless you're playing planeschase.
Yeah, but lets face it, planechase is truely hilarious. especially planechase EDH. Its the only format where I've ended up with 6 mana by the end of turn 1, an empyreal archangel by the end of turn 2 & this lot by the end of turn 8:

Windbrisk Heights (hiding Overrun
Faerie Conclave
Oran-Rief, The Vastwood
Gargoyle Castle
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Forest

Beastmaster Ascension (Active)
Mirari's Wake

Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Eldrazi Monument

Ant Queen (12/12)
Seedborn Muse (10/11)
Body Double (copying Empyrial Archangel (12/15)

1 Soldier (9/9)
51 Ants (9/9)

In Hand
Regal Force
Centaur Glade
Concordant Crossroads

And still manage to lose the game. The level of annoyance when you swing with all those dudes, only to be fogged by knight captain of eos, then mindslavered, sorin'd to 10 life, used to crush out the other players, then get profane commanded to death. That started happening so often (the 10 life to dead in 1 turn thing, along with infinite mindslaver recursion) that we banned sorin, magister sphinx & mindslaver.

So I was thinking about it and I agree class and template two ways to go. But had another idea. A melee class to balance the mage class. Like a reboot prc if possible. Mana fueled attacks. Applicable for pw template.


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