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Players of Older D&D and Clones

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegster View Post
I've never played any of the d&dd off-shoots. I've played d&d up until 3.0, which is when I departed from gaming. So all these new mechanics (3.x, PF, 4e, and now 5e) are alien to me. I'm just now getting into SWSE and am liking that but those are hard to get into unless you have time under your belt.

GURPS was fun as well as RIFTS, and Mechwarrior was ok. LO5R was a blast, mainly due to the setting and plot-line (I'm Japanese so I'm obligated to play LO5R. ). The two games we stuck to were AD&D 2e and Star Wars WEG.
Well, you can now play the retroclones, I'm sure. They're based on some edition before 3.0, and barring a few, retain lots of mechanical similarities, so in a way you already know them, and GURPS hasn't changed much since Third Edition, which was in use when 3.0 appeared.
Not sure what your not on Lo5R means, but I agree it's a fun system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiasRhen View Post
In Scarecrows Temple of Elemental Evil Advertisement for AD&D 1st edition we recently ran into the question of small size characters using human sized weapons. I Posted this.



I figured I would bring it here instead of derailing Scarecrows advertisement. Hope I am not derailing the current discussion but it has been over a week so I feel I am safe on that count.
I'm not sure what kind of discussion you'd expect. So much depends on how you approach it, wouldn't the answer be "it depends on the priorities of the GM"?
Is it about game balance, in the GM's opinion? Then you should pick a race like halfling with the expectation that you get some bonuses, and some penalties. If the GM understands the penalties to include not being able to use longswords, tough luck.
Or is it about whether it makes more sense to allow a halfling or another Small character to use a longsword as a two-handed sword, while a Large character would use it as a shortsword? Well, that's a different question, but the answers might well compromise game balance. So you should still decide what your priorities are.

Personally, I prefer either "all weapons deal 1d6 damage" or "the Pendragon/Scarlet Heroes solution". The latter consists of being allowed to use whatever you can explain how you're using, which is not to say you're necessarily proficient with it. But even if you're proficient with it, your class puts a hard cap on your damage, so the balance is preserved, especially if race is a class or if there are racial variants of the same class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsenRG View Post
Well, you can now play the retroclones, I'm sure. They're based on some edition before 3.0, and barring a few, retain lots of mechanical similarities, so in a way you already know them, and GURPS hasn't changed much since Third Edition, which was in use when 3.0 appeared.
Not sure what your not on Lo5R means, but I agree it's a fun system.


I'm not sure what kind of discussion you'd expect. So much depends on how you approach it, wouldn't the answer be "it depends on the priorities of the GM"?
Is it about game balance, in the GM's opinion? Then you should pick a race like halfling with the expectation that you get some bonuses, and some penalties. If the GM understands the penalties to include not being able to use longswords, tough luck.
Or is it about whether it makes more sense to allow a halfling or another Small character to use a longsword as a two-handed sword, while a Large character would use it as a shortsword? Well, that's a different question, but the answers might well compromise game balance. So you should still decide what your priorities are.

Personally, I prefer either "all weapons deal 1d6 damage" or "the Pendragon/Scarlet Heroes solution". The latter consists of being allowed to use whatever you can explain how you're using, which is not to say you're necessarily proficient with it. But even if you're proficient with it, your class puts a hard cap on your damage, so the balance is preserved, especially if race is a class or if there are racial variants of the same class.
It started out as is it legal for a halfling thief to use a long sword.

Actually it started when someone answered the question above by saying that halflings have to use a long sword two handed. A rule that I have not been able to find anywhere in the books, nor have I found a reference to it being in the books online. So I asked the person what their source for this rule was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excior View Post
It started out as is it legal for a halfling thief to use a long sword.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Wyvern View Post
Actually it started when someone answered the question above by saying that halflings have to use a long sword two handed. A rule that I have not been able to find anywhere in the books, nor have I found a reference to it being in the books online. So I asked the person what their source for this rule was.
Got it, but it still gets to the question of what the Referee would prioritize. Depending on this different Referees would give different answers.
Questions like "which kind of longsword, historical or D&D" and "what's the average height and weight for a halfling in the setting" are largely secondary to that, IME.

Which was kind of my point in asking for a source. But that is only the beginning of the discussion, which is a good one. There is no official rule so what do you do/what sound most reasonable to you? Which is why it came over here.

I have longsword and larger require two hands, mainly because Halflings are goddamn impregnable in Lamentations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Wyvern View Post
Which was kind of my point in asking for a source. But that is only the beginning of the discussion, which is a good one. There is no official rule so what do you do/what sound most reasonable to you? Which is why it came over here.
I'm starting with the idea that the average halfling is about 4 feet tall, and we mean not a longsword, but the stuff that D&D calls longsword. It's actually an arming sword.
In that case, I'd say it would be equivalent to using a bastard sword. Therefore, keeping the same level of logic and consistency with the real world, I'd have a specially trained halfling warrior being able to use it one-handed at the cost of a feat, if we're talking about 3x, and presumably if we're talking 5e as well (though in 5e the feat would definitely be doing more than that, but nevermind, I'm not likely to run 5e anyway).
When talking about OSR, I wouldn't allow a human to use a bastard sword one-handed, unless he's been trained in a warrior class or is above 192 cm, making him noticeable larger (which comes with its own downsides in most games I run, especially for a stealthy guy as per the original question). For halflings, he should be above 135 cm to use the arming sword/longsword one-handed. Presumably a halfling that can use the arming sword one-handed could use even a true bastard sword one-handed if he also had a Strength+Constitution of 28 or more, in my games.
Other people would answer that question differently, of course. I admit to being influenced by The Riddle of Steel in my approach to game balance.

What is an arming sword? and how is it different from a long sword in the real world. I never knew there was such a thing.

The arming sword is basically what we AD&Der call long swords, though the definitions of swords changed through the ages. Long swords could equal bastard sword or rapier depending on the time and place. Claymore could be a bastard sword, arming sword or a broad sword depending on the era. Trying to bring the real world into D&D just causes headaches.

The one thing I don't remember is what the c. stands for on Length column of the WEAPON TYPES, GENERAL DATA, AND “TO HIT” ADJUSTMENTS table on PHB 38.








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