General Discussion

All-purpose section for discussions that donít clearly belong in any of the other categories.


This week in video games...

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Rudo View Post
First of all, we've had that thread already if you remember.

And second, no, I'd consider slapping Sheva in a very cliche 'tribal' costume as her bonus outfit, one that has absolutely nothing to do with her background (a guerrilla fighter who became an agent for the Bioterrorism Security Assessment Alliance) and everything to do with her race as racist. It'd be like, in Resident Evil 4, in New Game Plus if Luis wore a matador's outfit instead of his usual suit.
Nah, I think it's just Capcom making whacky costume choices, as usual.

Have you SEEN the stripper Chris DLC? Who thought tight leather pants and a pair of spiked belts running across his naked chest was a good idea? Not all white males with ripped bodies dress like they have a BDSM fetish, you know! I can fault Resident Evil 5 for a lot of things, but quite frankly, racism is not one of the problems. And if the only argument that can be made against it is that one woman wears an amazoness bikini, an incredibly common costume on any woman of any skin type, mind you, then I really have no reason to believe the developers had any intentions of malice or hate in them when they were developing the game.

I would like to point out that besides Chris' STARS costume, all the costumes have no connection to the characters in, really, no way at all. Chris is either running around in zebra skins, leather bondage, or clad in metal like a tank while Sheva gets to play dress up as a clubber, an amazoness warrior, little red ridding hood, or a business woman.

It's like the developers thought people were actually going to have fun beating the game a second time as either Leather Man and Panther Babe or Miss Business and her sidekick The Walking Muscle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
About FarCry 3, I haven't played it and I doubt I ever will. That game is rather a puzzle to me, on one hand as you might have seen by their advertising campaign, the game has had some great review scores. However, on the other hand players are bashing it for being extremely racist and offensive all over.
Far Cry 3 uses well recognized literary tropes that are widely agreed upon as racist; the Nobel Savage and the Magical Negro. I'm only a few hours into the game and have already run into these tropes, I suspect the argument that they are pervasive throughout the game is probably true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkWren View Post
I hadn't heard about the "racism" piece, but that seems like it could easily be true given what happened with FarCry 2 (which I didn't play for that reason... well, and the kinda crappy review scores). However, I *loved* the first FarCry - I thought it had far more creepy ambience to it than many people gave it credit for, and it seemed like FarCry 3 might have something equally as entertaining.
I'm not sure to what you're referring to regarding racism in Far Cry 2, that game was actually a scathing criticism of Western intervention/meddling in Africa. Though you could probably make the case that it portrayed Africans as victims of Colonial and Post-Colonial orders, I would say that an accurate assessment of actual events. The criticism that I recall regarding Far Cry 2 was largely about gameplay, AI that could see through bushes, road blocks that would reappear after you cleared them, limitations on weapons.

Full disclosure, I am a fan of the Far Cry series, and Far Cry 2 was my favorite game of that year for both its gameplay (which did have serious flaws) and its commentary on the West's role in Africa. As I said, I'm about 5 hours into Far Cry 3. The racist tropes are there, but if you like Open-World FPSes the gameplay is excellent.

I wonder if the whole helpless villager stuff was unintentionally racist. All open-world games basically have 'helpless villagers', but because this game is based on an island where the villagers just happen to not be white... I have the feeling that it wasn't supposed to look as bad as it does.

As for the whole magical tribal tattoo thing, well... last I checked you aren't going to find a lot of shamanistic tribes of white people out there. So I think that was destined to be perceived as racist from the very beginning, unfortunately.

EDIT: To provide a counterpoint to the racist claims, I went and dug up this article:

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...y-from-racism/

Pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the matter. It seems to me the guy at RPS was just trying to stir up controversy.

While I agree that I don't think the developers were intentionally being racist, I think that Playstationlifestyle.net article is overly dismissive.

First off, RPS isnt the only place that brought up the racism issue and the tone of the Playstationlifestyle.net really characterizes Walker as the only guy bringing up the issue and as looking for something that isnt there. So I can't agree with your conclusion that Walker was trying to stir up controversy, he was addressing a controversy that was already there and it does deserve being addressed.

I can understand why Moss doesn't buy the passive villagers argument as racist but he dismisses or ignores other more important points. Walker doesn't use the term Magical Negro to be provocative, he uses it because that the word for that type of stock character. Ask a Literature Professor or Spike Lee. In Far Cry 3 there is a specific character who fits the stereotype of the Magical Negro very clearly.

Moss doesnt address the other, significantly more pervasive, stereotype: the Nobel Savage. The idea that there is something for the modern white protagonist to learn (and use to become a savior figure) from the inhabitants of the islands that live closer to nature is all over the place, both in mystical and non-mystical terms.

Having read both Walker's What I Love About Far Cry 3 and What I Loathe About Far Cry 3 he makes a far more nuanced examination than Moss's A Far Cry From Racism give's him credit for. There is something to be said for the "its just a game" argument, but dismissing any examination of possible racism or sexism in games is not good for anyone.

Was this game destined to be perceived as racist? Probably, but not because people are making something out of nothing. There's something there even if it's not intentional or even that important in the grand scheme of the plot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhitefire View Post
I wonder if the whole helpless villager stuff was unintentionally racist. All open-world games basically have 'helpless villagers', but because this game is based on an island where the villagers just happen to not be white... I have the feeling that it wasn't supposed to look as bad as it does.

As for the whole magical tribal tattoo thing, well... last I checked you aren't going to find a lot of shamanistic tribes of white people out there. So I think that was destined to be perceived as racist from the very beginning, unfortunately.
The whole trope bull crap is just another example of the racism/sexism double standard that surrounds the industry. I would love to know what the term is for a white man that possess magical insight. I bet it is a lot more flattering than "Mystical Savage."

These journalists are so engrossed with finding racism where it doesn't exist that they are not even aware that they are the ones playing the role of the racist themselves by inventing these derogatory terms and then stamping it on anything they do not approve of, going so far as to even labeling God being portrayed as a black man as nothing more than a case of "Magical Negro" when the entire trope could fall into the "Magic Guide" trope. But nope, if the person filling the role has a different skin color, than they must fall under a different trope, and if possible, it must highlight the race and gender of the people qualifying, as if to bash it into our heads that those people are a minority instead of treating us as equals.

Morgan Freeman said it best: To stop racism, you must stop talking about it. You stop calling me a black man, and I'll stop calling you a white man. We're all humans here. The only racists are the people that continue to dig that disgusting word up out of the muck so they can force it in to our faces.

Quote:
First off, RPS isnt the only place that brought up the racism issue and the tone of the Playstationlifestyle.net really characterizes Walker as the only guy bringing up the issue and as looking for something that isnt there. So I can't agree with your conclusion that Walker was trying to stir up controversy, he was addressing a controversy that was already there and it does deserve being addressed.
Except most people saying Far Cry 3 is racist, are linking to or parroting the RPS article.

Also, if you continue on through the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhitefire View Post
Except most people saying Far Cry 3 is racist, are linking to or parroting the RPS article.

Also, if you continue on through the game
On your first point, because other people cite something that doesn't mean it invalid. If people are citing a particular article or book then there's probably something important in it.

On your second, if that is the case then that's a cool idea. Actually Spec Ops: The Line did a similar thing and it was very good for that reason (More on that over at the Penny Arcade Report). The Guardian quote has me intrigued. On the other hand, the article you linked to that quotes the Guardian is entirely incorrect about the opening of the game. That's from a trailer, the game opens with a montage of Brody's vacation which is shown to be a video on Brody's cell phone that Vaas is taunting him with. Brody starts in a cage, and I have yet to get to the scene that the article describes and I am five hours in.

Well, the article was written in July. That's probably part of what's going on.

However, the hallucinogen statement was a quote from a Dev. There is a chance that idea was dropped, but the other article responding to RPS did hint to something that would kind of negate the whole "Magical Negro" trope. That seems the most likely explanation. Having not finished the game myself, I can't really say. I'm just trying to provide a counterpoint to the RPS article (which I did read, and it stank of unbridled prejudice against the game, likely from the controversies that arose with Far Cry 2 along the same lines).

Did you read the first article about what he liked? My take away from the two of them was that Walker really liked the game overall but felt obligated to address these racism allegations.

Also, regarding Far Cry 2 RPS is one of the outlets that loved that game, Walker included. I know this because its what got me to try it and I loved Far Cry 2.





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