The Last Jedi - Page 4 - OG Myth-Weavers

Notices


General Discussion

All-purpose section for discussions that don’t clearly belong in any of the other categories.


The Last Jedi

 
Yeah, +1 to TheFred for nailing my thoughts too. As for the positive reviews taking a little longer, honestly I probably would've stayed quiet, I'm more of a lurker, but with the large amount of negative ones right away I didn't want people to get the impression it was universally hated so I was prompted to post.

Well, I'm glad you lurked your way out of the shadows, Rudo

As to Finn, here's my take: he was a bigger deal in the first movie than in this one because what he did in the first movie was a big deal. He was a Storm Trooper who turned; he was a bad guy who saw the Light! That's a big deal. But he isn't Force-touched or a great planner or a crack pilot or a high-ranking Resistance member. He's just a guy who did the right thing. So while I get why he was a big part of The Force Awakens, I don't agree that he needs to be a big part of the rest of the movies.

Think of Lando in Empire Strikes Back. He's a big part of that movie because he has a big part to play, but in Return of the Jedi, not so much.

God help me...or look at Jar Jar. I mean, I know we all hate Jar Jar, but there's a good reason for him being in the first prequel a lot and not much in the others (beyond being wildly unlikable). His role as a guide in Phantom Menace is a big part of the story, and while he's in subsequent films a little, he doesn't have much to do so there's no need to continue trying to make him a main character.

Heck, after thinking (writing) "out loud", I've come to my own conclusion about Finn: I'm not upset they sent him and Rose on a wild goose chase with no real payoff; I'm upset that the filmmakers falsely believe that just because a character is a big, important part of one movie he or she has to become a big, important part of future movies thereafter.

So I'll pitch in my two cents, while I'm waiting to go to a stupid meeting.

All in all, I enjoyed Last Jedi. It was a fun, visually stunning movie. The action was good at parts (and decent for the others), the humor was enjoyable (although a little forced in a few occasions), and the plot was okay enough that I didn't feel like groaning ever. I don't care much for the Finn-Rose romance angle much (that kissing scene was a bit too forced for my liking), but it doesn't bother me that much.

TLJ is a decent movie. It doesn't beat out the original trilogy, except in the visual department, but it's better than the prequels.

I'd go see it again in theatres, if my wife would ever want to go. But I'll likely have to wait for Netflix to watch it with her.


Side note: Rogue One could've easily been a generic sci-fi action flick without being in the Star Wars universe. It wouldn't have done as well without the SW name, however. I found it to be alright (the action was good and the droid was the best character, hands down). Relatedly, the story seems like it was spawned from a SW RPG campaign - just look at the characters involved LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
Star Wars is a space opera. It's about a romp through the galaxy, taking you to strange new places, other worlds. We go from Tatooine to deep space to the Ice Moon of Hoth (and yeah, why the hell is a whole planet a desert and a whole moon icy? Don't these places have varied climates?). The prequels didn't really do this very well, so The Force Awakens taking us to Jakku was refreshing; even if it did feel like a Tatooine rip-off I actually felt like I was there.
This is the primary reason why I liked Rogue One. Scarif is, effectively, an island archipelago of a planet, with palm trees and sandy dunes and water. Water!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ben View Post
Rogue One had characters? Certainly none that developed. I remember the main character was like Jane but not Jane because that's too "earth" and it was fancied up. I remember the names of zero of them.
The characters did have actual character arcs, not all of them, admittedly but that isn't surprising for an ensemble movie. Especially one that apparently got recut as much as Rogue One. Character names are always a little... sketchy in SW movies. Half the people have easy to remember normal people names and half end up with wacky creations of the universe.

Jyn Erso basically learned the same lesson as Finn in TFA, just with a much sadder ending: you can't just run, there's more to life than survival.

Cassian realized that they couldn't win by just becoming as ruthless as the Empire they were fighting.

Even the villain had development before his obvious death, as Krennic slowly began to realize that no matter how much he accomplished the Empire was so corrupt that he would never be acknowledged for it.

The characters all had clear motivations and reasons to be there. The ones who made Rogue One had it easier in that they didn't have to justify *existing* characters motivations and actions, but then that's back on the whole Disney is lazy/incompetent for greenlighting a blockbuster trilogy where the plan is 'hire a director to make a movie and let him figure out the entire plot'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
Poe was not 'just' a fighter jockey. He got demoted from Commander to Captain. Since apparently in the Star Wars universe they flip those two from the normal Naval ranking system that means he was literally only one rank removed from Holdo. That is the equivalent of a Colonel asking their CO to brief them on their plans and basically being told 'why should I tell you, peon?'.

Let's not also forget the part where the Resistance is not an army. It is literally a group of guerilla fighters that was down to what appeared to be less than a dozen senior officers. Which means most likely if Holdo hadn't been around HE would have been the CO.
Linked article falls into Worldy Talk, removed.

Do we need to mark for spoilers? I'm going into plot spoilers here, FWIW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlinmc View Post
Well, I'm glad you lurked your way out of the shadows, Rudo

As to Finn, here's my take: he was a bigger deal in the first movie than in this one because what he did in the first movie was a big deal. He was a Storm Trooper who turned; he was a bad guy who saw the Light! That's a big deal. But he isn't Force-touched or a great planner or a crack pilot or a high-ranking Resistance member. He's just a guy who did the right thing. So while I get why he was a big part of The Force Awakens, I don't agree that he needs to be a big part of the rest of the movies.

Think of Lando in Empire Strikes Back. He's a big part of that movie because he has a big part to play, but in Return of the Jedi, not so much.

God help me...or look at Jar Jar. I mean, I know we all hate Jar Jar, but there's a good reason for him being in the first prequel a lot and not much in the others (beyond being wildly unlikable). His role as a guide in Phantom Menace is a big part of the story, and while he's in subsequent films a little, he doesn't have much to do so there's no need to continue trying to make him a main character.

Heck, after thinking (writing) "out loud", I've come to my own conclusion about Finn: I'm not upset they sent him and Rose on a wild goose chase with no real payoff; I'm upset that the filmmakers falsely believe that just because a character is a big, important part of one movie he or she has to become a big, important part of future movies thereafter.
Cheers.

FWIW, I do think the Finn sequences had another purpose: Show some of the universe outside of the immediate effects of the First Order/rebels conflict. We don't get a whole lot of world-building at all in The Force Awakens despite the time skip, so I liked seeing some of what civilian life is like, including the notion that there are war profiteers making money from dealing in both sides and an exploited lower class that are inspired by the myths of the Jedi, both old and new (as seen in the ending). Also, given failure is such a big theme in the movie, I do think it's an important step in the process to show Finn and Rose trying, failing, and ultimately setting up a bigger failure vis a vis the hacker turning on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewdebega View Post
There was an interesting article I read not too long ago addressing this interaction: Linked article falls into Worldly Talk, removed. Without going into my thoughts on the point the opinion piece tries to make, there was one section that threw me off.



Can someone remind me what action Poe took at this point that indirectly/directly caused the death of "many rebels"?
I'm not sure if this is specifically what they meant (I only saw the movie once so far and was a little distracted at this point), but the hacker overheard Finn and Poe's discussion about the rebel's plans to escape, which is what caused the First Order to know to target the smaller fleeing ships. This is after his decision to confront the ship in the opening of the movie led to them losing all of their bombers.

(EDIT: After reading the paragraph, it's not referring to that specific plot point, but the overall plot of Poe and Finn going behind Holdo's back to take a hacker into the ship. It led to the First Order knowing of the rebel's escape plan for the smaller ship and FUBARing it.)

Thank you for the article BTW, it syncs up a lot with what I really liked about Holdo's scenes.

A reminder folks, Worldly Talk topics are no longer allowed on Myth Weavers. Please do not draw connections to real world issues with the movie, no matter how appropriate/clear a parallel may be.

To me, the film was sub-par. I went in expecting something comparable to ESB compared to ANH, and didn't.

Rey is still a Mary Sue, so nothing needs to be added on that. No amount of acting can save that poorly written of a character.

Finn was, once again, one of (if not the) most interesting character in the film. Willing to embark on a suicide mission not once, but twice, was a nice set of defining moments. Despite him being my favorite character of the 3rd trilogy, I wouldn't have minded him killing himself for a send-off; they hadn't resolved all of his story arcs, but it was fitting to the story and his character to do so. Rose saving him... well, it kept him alive and denied a similar scene of Han being frozen in Episode V. Also... Rose had no practical means of getting that craft back to intercept him, seeing how he was going in a straight line and she would have had to turn around and travel a significantly greater distance in a shorter amount of time. But hey, plot.

Poe got the screen time he needed, and was incredibly fleshed out and well done. His arc was classic ascension of a fighter to a commander, and was handled quite well.

Luke... yeah. I'm just gonna quote Mark Hammil on this one. "It wasn't my Luke Skywalker". Though, the submerged X-wing was a fantastic nod to Episode V.

As for the plot? Despite the inconsistencies to established lore, it was pretty well done. The endless pursuit was an interesting concept. Yet, why they didn't turn the Assault Frigate around and ram it earlier on is beyond me. They didn't need to destroy the fleet, all they had to do was hit Snoke's ship. But hey, convenient plot hole. A horrendously stupid mistake on part of the Resistance was putting confirmed THREE flag officers on one ship. Furthermore, more than 1 was on the bridge at a time. Doing idiotic things like that is asking for your senior leadership to be gutted. As a result, the Resistance deserved to lose a good chunk of senior leadership for a mistake that bad. Vice Admiral Holdo... yeah, terrible character. Her motivations didn't make sense, her authoritative presence was lacking, nor did she have any sense of military bearing that would be needed for one of such a high rank. Admiralty is defined by being in command of more than one capital ship; in order to do so, you need your ships to be on the same page as you at all times. That requires sharing information. Her insistence on not informing others of her plan is indicative of a poor officer; the type of person who should NEVER have that degree of command.

The death of Snoke was... underwhelming. They built up a character to kill him without fleshing him out. There could have been a lot more done with him, of which they no longer can fix. Shame, really.

Personally, I think the film would have done more than a bit better if Leia had died instead of Luke. This would have given Poe the chance to rise to the occasion and be a defining moment for his character. Similar to how Finn grows more as a character after Han's death, the same could happen with Poe after Leia's. I understand the mentality of changing of the Old Guard, but they did so in the wrong order. Having Luke die in the last film instead of this one would have allowed Rey to rise to her full self in the last film, similar to how Luke transitioned. This would have also allowed the film to focus heavily on Rey without stealing the thunder from another character's ascension to their role in replacing the Old Guard.





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Last Database Backup 2024-03-28 05:19:56pm local time
Myth-Weavers Status