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Dresden Files Accelerated Edition


EDIT: I am not being sarcastic, I honestly do not understand what you are trying to convey.

EDIT2: Ah, I think I get it. And I think we are defining "shifts of success" differently. But either way, I see your point now!

EDIT3: To explain my thought process, I was thinking of "you gain two additional shifts of effect to your success", not just "you gain two additional shifts to your success". You're right, the way I had it worded before was not the same as saying you gain an additional free invocation.

Originally Posted by Silverkiss View Post
Another thing is that I dislike this switching mantles thing. If I am a White Court Vampire and am offered a position as the Winter Knight (to move away from canon examples), I don't suddenly lose my WCV powers. In practice, what would happen is that I would have access to both mantles in full, not have to spend further milestones buying back something I've arbitrarily lost.
If there's no sort of mechanical penalty in stacking mantles (in this case the penalty being investing all of your current and future build into investing two mantles fully) then there's nothing to stop people stacking half a dozen mantles, except the hard and grim stare of the GM. There needs to be something to balance the PC who has gone through a few transformations throughout the campaign with the PC who has stayed in one Mantle the entire way.

Except this is not DnD or Pathfinder (i.e. well defined combat simulators), but a narrativistic game. If you're having trouble with players powergaming, Fate is probably not the best choice for your table.

I'll agree that the best way to handle a powergamer is to discuss it with them, not impose mechanical limitations, but I disagree that powergaming isn't a problem in narrative games, or that narrative game systems shouldn't include mechanics to limit it.

Furthermore, it gives a reason for a character to put their own spin on a Mantle. Look at Lloyd Slate and Harry Dresden: both Winter Knights, both the right hand of the Winter Court. But Slate is a thick-headed thug, a murderer who uses a sword and his bare hands in a fight. When he needs to murder an old man, he does it by throwing him down a flight of stairs. Harry Dresden is a wizard, a thinker with a great deal of power at his disposal. When he gets into a physical confrontation as the Winter Knight, he uses his new powers to freeze an opponent solid, then a very old power to shatter them into tiny pieces. Mechanically the same thing Slate did (an Attack using Forces) but with a personalized twist.

Let's look at your hypothetical WCV Winter Knight, let's say he took over for Slate. A WCV is likely to be more of a social operator, a manipulator and, yes, seducer who is more comfortable with words than with physical confrontation. Your WCVWK is more likely to try and bind faeries into twistly-worded contracts rather than blow them up, or entrap mortals in a psychic prison rather than throw them down stairs. It's the same job, but because you've invested your points differently your character has a much different approach to it.

By RAW, Harry was using a power from the Faerie Knight mantle (freezing) then a power from the Magical Practitioner mantle (magic, because it was his old and trusted magic, not magic drawn from Winter), which is an argument in favour of my view that, in canon, Harry has the benefit of both full mantles instead of having switched over. Sure, you can say that he has re-bought some of his old conditions, but I feel like that is an arbitrary choice to make that doesn't make much sense with either the canon material or with how the rest of the system works.

Regarding the WCVWK, my point is still that said character would have access to his full vampiric powers (and weaknesses, like the Hunger) and to full Faerie Knight powers (and weaknesses, like iron); nothing you've said counteracts that.

Maybe you'll all use this as proof of 'just how far gone I am' over to the side of 'powergaming', but I don't think it takes a 'powergamer' to neglect to purchase a detriment.

I may have misread your post a bit and somehow interpreted it as a continuation of Chee's interpretation of out-of-primary-Mantle conditions.

Personally, if I were to houserule this issue right now, I would say that the first time a PC gains any beneficial trait of a Mantle, they gain any and all detrimental Conditions of that Mantle as well, automatically and for free.
If you buy Wyld Power, you gain both Impaled by Cold Iron and Disfavoured. This costs you only 1 refresh, and can be accomplished at any single Major Milestone.
Alternatively, they could purchase Enforcer of the Accords at a Significant Milestone. This would also come with Impaled by Cold Iron and Disfavoured, and would also cost only 1 refresh.

Yeah, that's something that is close to the rules-as-written right now (where if you change Mantles you end up having to rebuy everything you want to keep from your old mantle, so it is the same in terms of it costing you Refresh to obtain an additional Mantle, which is fine), but is more organic in the sense that you end up with both Mantles, and the advantages and disadvantages of both. That's a ruling I have a lot less problem with.

Ehhh. Buying a stunt off a different Mantle doesn't necessarily mean you are intending to take on that Mantle, though. I think a lot of that plays into aspects and justification.

Like, you have a Magical Practitioner who starts buying Red Court Conditions and stunts isn't necessarily becoming a Red Court Vampire. Not saying that can't be the case, but that depends on how you are justifying what you buy. You could buy the Hunger Condition, Vamperic Strength and Recovery, and describe that as Blood magic. Or he is implanting himself with a vamperic hunger that gives him super strength and can speed up his healing.

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