Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Multiculturalism: pros and cons

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
Edit: I'm also still looking for citations of 1) state sponsors of terror (presumably nonislamic)
Not merely 'state sponsored', but state perpetrated as well.
I recommend reading the 2015 'discussion on drones and bombing' thread on these boards as just one example of a program which could be described as state terrorism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
and 2) white Christian 'Right wing terrorism'
'right wing': http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...reat.html?_r=0
'white': http://www.mintpressnews.com/white-a...states/211608/

I don't have a similar article describing the scale of Christianity-affiliated (or claimed, or claimed to be affiliated, etc...) terrorism, but if you'd like, I could provide several examples of Christian organizations (or at least organizations that claim to be Christian) known or suspected to be engaged in terrorism and/or a few individuals who might or might not be affiliated with such organizations who have been accused/convicted of engaging in terrorism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
Not merely 'state sponsored', but state perpetrated as well.
I recommend reading the 2015 'discussion on drones and bombing' thread on these boards as just one example of a program which could be described as state terrorism.


'right wing': http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...reat.html?_r=0
'white': http://www.mintpressnews.com/white-a...states/211608/

I don't have a similar article describing the scale of Christianity-affiliated (or claimed, or claimed to be affiliated, etc...) terrorism, but if you'd like, I could provide several examples of Christian organizations (or at least organizations that claim to be Christian) known or suspected to be engaged in terrorism and/or a few individuals who might or might not be affiliated with such organizations who have been accused/convicted of engaging in terrorism.
If you provide those examples will you accept a blanket denial of them being actual Christians, or having just completely twisted the religion out of any context? Any discussion of ISIS/IL or other Islamic linked/inspired terrorism is met with those same disclaimers on this board quite often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
I don't have a similar article describing the scale of Christianity-affiliated (or claimed, or claimed to be affiliated, etc...) terrorism, but if you'd like, I could provide several examples of Christian organizations (or at least organizations that claim to be Christian) known or suspected to be engaged in terrorism and/or a few individuals who might or might not be affiliated with such organizations who have been accused/convicted of engaging in terrorism.
So you're describing things like the Muslim Brotherhood, but a Christian denominate. That's... not really all surprising. Now, are we stating that they all stem from a similar school of thought, which ISIL, al-Qaeda, al-Nusra, and the Muslim Brotherhood are known to do? Or are they not connected?

Also, the term you are looking for is "Domestic Terrorism" not "State Terrorism".

@Shorikid
That would be the reason I included those paranthetical alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinch View Post
So you're describing things like the Muslim Brotherhood, but a Christian denominate. That's... not really all surprising. Now, are we stating that they all stem from a similar school of thought, which ISIL, al-Qaeda, al-Nusra, and the Muslim Brotherhood are known to do? Or are they not connected?
I don't have enough information to say that they 'all stem from a similar school of thought', but then I'm not confident I could defend that assertion for the ostensibly Islamic groups you mention, either. I haven't immersed myself that deeply in the schools of thought of terrorist organizations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinch View Post
Also, the term you are looking for is "Domestic Terrorism" not "State Terrorism".
'domestic terrorism' may include 'right-wing'/white/'Christian' terrorism. It may also include 'Islamic' terrorism.
State Terrorism was referenced as a separate phenomenon also relevant to the subject of 'terrorism that gets comparatively left out of the 'war on terror''

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
Not merely 'state sponsored', but state perpetrated as well.
I recommend reading the 2015 'discussion on drones and bombing' thread on these boards as just one example of a program which could be described as state terrorism.
That thread seemed to devolve into a discussion of domestic torture. But the short response is that the US isn't going to characterize its own programs as terrorism.


Quote:
'right wing': http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...reat.html?_r=0
'white': http://www.mintpressnews.com/white-a...states/211608/

I don't have a similar article describing the scale of Christianity-affiliated (or claimed, or claimed to be affiliated, etc...) terrorism, but if you'd like, I could provide several examples of Christian organizations (or at least organizations that claim to be Christian) known or suspected to be engaged in terrorism and/or a few individuals who might or might not be affiliated with such organizations who have been accused/convicted of engaging in terrorism.
The US government throughout the Obama Administration has been sounding the warning on right wing militias. In fact I've seen a number of right wing articles complaining about the abundance of government prep for said right wing uprisings. They are classified as right-wing terrorism because that is their common cause, rather than being white or Christian. They are terrorists because of their ideology so fall under a wider blanket term. If you drill down then you divide them into 'white supremacist' or 'neo-nazi' terrorists and 'soverign citizen' terrorists, because that's their driving cause to commit terrorism. But taken as a whole, there isn't a glut of 'white christian' terrorists.

Also, the numbers of incidents in the continental US since 9/11 pale in comparison when you compare it across the world. We actually have pretty good intel and security despite what has been said by the media. The ones we have trouble stopping domestically are the lone wolf attacks that didn't come from terrorist training camps, but are only inspired by Radical Islam. Worldwide, the greatest perpetrators of terrorism are inspired by radical Islamic ideology and that is their common identifier.

https://www.statista.com/topics/2267/terrorism/

Quote:
Originally Posted by penchant View Post
2) white christian 'right wing terrorism'
How about the IRA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeman830 View Post
How about the IRA?
They were terrorists because they were irish separatists, not because they were white or christian. While they were both white and christian, those were not driving factors in their acts of terror.

Edit: To clarify, the reason why people are driven to call out 'islamic terrorism' is because they not only happen to all be islamic, but also use their religion as a driving cause to commit terroristic acts. ISIL/ISIS is trying to establish an Islamic Caliphate, Iran has been trying to spread the Isalmic Revolution for generations, Hezbollah has by trying to secure the Holy Land for the Palestinians, an on. It's both a common factor and common cause.

Well, another example would be the KKK, who do claim to be religiously motivated. Granted, they have been pretty civil in recent years, but historically...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
That thread seemed to devolve into a discussion of domestic torture. But the short response is that the US isn't going to characterize its own programs as terrorism.
Which would seem to very nearly guarantee comparatively 'lax' treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
The US government throughout the Obama Administration has been sounding the warning on right wing militias. In fact I've seen a number of right wing articles complaining about the abundance of government prep for said right wing uprisings. They are classified as right-wing terrorism because that is their common cause, rather than being white or Christian. They are terrorists because of their ideology so fall under a wider blanket term. If you drill down then you divide them into 'white supremacist' or 'neo-nazi' terrorists and 'soverign citizen' terrorists, because that's their driving cause to commit terrorism. But taken as a whole, there isn't a glut of 'white christian' terrorists.
The point was the relative severity of response (and to a lesser extent the severity of that response relative to the threat posed to the US). The fact that the US government is demonstrably aware of the risk from non-Islamic domestic terrorist groups does nothing to alleviate these disparities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
Also, the numbers of incidents in the continental US since 9/11 pale in comparison when you compare it across the world.
I do believe I explicitly acknowledged this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
Worldwide, the greatest perpetrators of terrorism are inspired by radical Islamic ideology and that is their common identifier.

https://www.statista.com/topics/2267/terrorism/
Do those statistics include state actions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeman830 View Post
Well, another example would be the KKK, who do claim to be religiously motivated. Granted, they have been pretty civil in recent years, but historically...
Yes, the KKK operates both because they are White and historically have used Christianity as cause and justification for their actions, just as the South did before them. If it's just the KKK, then we would call it Klan Terrorism, like we did Iranian Terrorism back in the 80's. If their beliefs become mainstream enough that they and other groups start committing acts of terror, then it would be appropriate to label it as white christian terrorism and I would expect christian groups to distance themselves and loudly condemn their actions.





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