Worldly Talk

Civil discussion and debate on real world events and issues.


Multiculturalism: pros and cons

 
Shakespeare never claimed originality. He just took well-known stories, both fictional and non-fictional, and rewrote them in iambic pentameter for a modern (well, modern in 1605) audience. He was the Elvis Presley of Elizabethan England

And as for Rosencrantz and Guildenstern: they weren't hired spies exactly. True, the king did ask them to "glean what afflicts" the melancholy eponymous protagonist, but he doesn't promise them fame or fortune. They were sent for by royal decree, so they came. They were friends of Hamlet's, so they tried to figure out what the hell was wrong with him. Just because they couldn't decipher what he meant by saying, "I am but mad north, north-west; when the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw," doesn't make them villainous. Heck, I'd argue almost anybody would have trouble with that one.

But you're right that Hamlet sends them to their deaths, despite being clueless to the contents of Claudius's letter than instructed England to kill Hamlet upon his arrival. I don't think that that reflects badly on them, though; I'd say it was Hamlet being a nasty bastard on that one.

I'm personally for multiculturalism and I think it's beneficial to society. Just look at Americas!

Most of the world's inventions, best economy, lots of different food types.


I mean we have to be honest here, the food in America is the best.

It's to die for!


...no literally, people, people are dying because they're eating too much. ._.

It's like our most serious health problem. We need to find a way to cut back on this. For realsz. BUT YEAH!

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Originally Posted by DragonBarbarian View Post
...no literally, people, people are dying because they're eating too much. ._.

It's like our most serious health problem. We need to find a way to cut back on this. For realsz. BUT YEAH!
What food are they eating?

JEarlier, someone - perhaps whytebio - mentioned the research of Dr. Robert D. Putnam on diversity and trust within communities. Its thesis is that there is less trust and comnity investment in diverse societies in America.

Now you know me, I love to read studies. I could not obtain a copy of the paper, but I found an NPR interview of the author which was a terrific explaination of the research and impact for diversity in America.

Quote:
And about seven or eight years ago, at the request of communities all across America - big communities and small communities - we did a very large national survey, trying to measure the level of civic engagement and the number of friends people have and how they got along with their local government and so on, in 40 very different communities, places you've heard of like Los Angeles or Boston or Atlanta or Detroit or Chicago, and places you haven't heard, little rural counties in the South Dakota or up in the Appalachias in West Virginia, or villages in New Hampshire - places all over.

I do need to step back a minuet and say I think that the - it's not merely a fact that America's becoming more diverse. It's a benefit. America will - all of us will, over the long run, benefit from being a more diverse, more heterogeneous place. Places that are more diverse have higher rates of growth on average and they have better cuisine. And it's just a more interesting place to live.

So in the long run, waves of immigration like we're going through now and that we've gone through in the past and increasing diversity is good for a society. But what we discovered in this research, somewhat to our surprise, was that in the short run the more ethnically diverse the neighborhood you live in, the more you - every - all of us tend to hunker down, to pull in. The more diverse - and when I say all of us, I mean all of us. I mean blacks and whites and Asians and Latinos, all of us. The more diverse the group around us, ethnically, in our neighborhood, the less we trust anybody, including people who look like us. Whites trust whites less. Blacks trust blacks less, in more diverse settings.

...

Look, I want to make sure that your listeners understand that I think over the long run, as we get to know one another, and as we begin to see things that we have in common with people who don't look like us, this allergy to diversity tends to diminish and to go away. So this is not something that I think as an argument against immigration. On the contrary, actually, I think in the long run we'll all be better. But I don't think that progressives and integrationists like me do our cause any service by hiding from ourselves the fact that it's not easy.
Quote:
Prof. PUTNAM: The U.S. Army is actually an amazing success story. The average American soldier has many more interracial friendships than a civilian of the same age and background does. Again, that's because, for at least for part of their lives, it's not that they're not - they don't know that they're, you know, black or Latino or whatever, but there are other things that are more important about them...

MARTIN: That they're Army green.

Prof. PUTNAM: ...at least some of the time.

MARTIN: They're Army green.

Prof. PUTNAM: Army green.

MARTIN: So there are ways to overcome...

Prof. PUTNAM: Exactly.

Yeah, that seems pretty accurate. The army socializes it's recruits and even their immediate families into a common system of values and customs. It effectively takes people from diverse backgrounds and homogenizes them in very particular ways. Though not applicable to a free society, it is very effective in creating unity and homogeneity out of diversity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchant View Post
Yeah, that seems pretty accurate. The army socializes it's recruits and even their immediate families into a common system of values and customs. It effectively takes people from diverse backgrounds and homogenizes them in very particular ways. Though not applicable to a free society, it is very effective in creating unity and homogeneity out of diversity.
As part of said sample, I can attest to that. The military cares little about your ethnicity as long as you can perform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silveroak View Post
Apparently.
US for the cultural win, since we apparently *define* other cultures...
... as we incorporate them into our multicultural society.
You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.
No, we incorporate them and produce a uniquely American version of their culture. It has aspects of their culture reshaped into another form. It's a different culture to anyone from that culture.

A good example is "spaghetti and meatballs". In Italy, meatballs (polpette) are not eaten with pasta. They're usually fried, braised, simmered in broth, or boiled and served by themselves. Over here, they're usually served with pasta.

They're both Italian, except one is Italian-American. To most people here, "spaghetti and meatballs" is Italian. To an Italian from Italy, it's occasionally seen as an abomination.

Technicalities, I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diancecht View Post
No, we incorporate them and produce a uniquely American version of their culture. It has aspects of their culture reshaped into another form. It's a different culture to anyone from that culture.

A good example is "spaghetti and meatballs". In Italy, meatballs (polpette) are not eaten with pasta. They're usually fried, braised, simmered in broth, or boiled and served by themselves. Over here, they're usually served with pasta.

They're both Italian, except one is Italian-American. To most people here, "spaghetti and meatballs" is Italian. To an Italian from Italy, it's occasionally seen as an abomination.

Technicalities, I know.
Here's another clear-cut example of how things differ: Taco Bell versus actual Mexican cuisine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azar View Post
Here's another clear-cut example of how things differ: Taco Bell versus actual Mexican cuisine.
Can the average common joe citizen tell the difference? Or is it like the "organic" versus "GMC" thing?





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