Path of war level 15 (7 level warder / 8 level Landsknecht Maneuver known Advice - Myth-Weavers


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Path of war level 15 (7 level warder / 8 level Landsknecht Maneuver known Advice

   
Path of war level 15 (7 level warder / 8 level Landsknecht Maneuver known Advice

Planning a level 7 warder / 8 Landsknecht Or would Stalker work better for the base class?

Planning to focus on Mithral current / Riven hour class & Scarlet throne but am unsure what maneuvers and stances i should choose

can i get some advice on what ones to choose?

and how many known ones would i have? 13 I think.

A L7 Warder gets 9 manoeuvres known. By L8 a Landsknecht gets +4. Therefore, yes, you will have 13.

I've never really looked at the Landsknecht much. I think Warder should work well - there's obvious synergy between your free, Int-based Combat Reflexes and the Landsknecht prereqs, Superior Reach at Landsknecht 4 and Bait the Dragon (Robilar's Gambit) at Landsknecht 8. Mobile Attack feels more like a Stalker thing, but it should work just as well for the Warder, maybe even better, though if you're slowed down with heavy armour it's maybe slightly less useful. Honestly I don't think it favours one more than the other all that much.

Worth noting that neither has either of the disciplines you need to enter. For a Stalker, Vigilante gives you Scarlet Throne, Bushi gives you Mithral Current, and I think you can combine the two. Warder can also use Bushi and can get Scarlet Throne through Zweihander Sentinel; unfortunately Zweihander Sentinel is sort of anti-synergetic (wants you to two-hand a weapon whereas Landsknecht wants you to use a one-handed weapon) but you don't really give anything up by taking it aside from Broken Blade. Further, Scarlet Throne Style (the feat) fixes this, though it feels like a bit of a tax.

In terms of stances and manoeuvres, that kind of depends on what you're aiming to do. It's like asking what spells to take - some are just better than others, but there are enough options that you can do a bunch of different things with them.

You get a L7 stance, a L6 stance, a L3 stance and two L1 stances. Stance of the Thunderbrand is a really great L5 stance if you're willing to branch out into Piercing Thunder, works really great with Warder/Landsknecht, and sets you up for Deadly Thunder Lancer's Stance later. All the Scarlet Throne stances other than Scarlet Einhander feel kind of underwhelming to me, until you get to Scarlet Majesty Stance, which you can't take yet. Basically all of the Riven Hourglass stances are good, but they also tend to be quite defence; you may want at least one offensive one. If you want to use Mithral Current manoeuvres, you may want/need one of the "free sheathe" stances. Personally, I don't like these as it's a super dumb strategy that makes no in-universe sense (because sheathing your weapon will help you in any way whatsoever, right? ). I'd note that Mithral Current Stance is partially wasted (you already threaten before you draw thanks to Landsknecht) and Shifting Waters Stance has synergy with charging and some other manoeuvres (weirdly, it probably works really well with Primal Fury) but not much with others.

You probably want at least one good standard-action strike to use with Surprising Strike. Otherwise you want to make sure your manoeuvres work together - taking boosts which suit full attacks more and then a lot of standard-action strikes is not as good as a boost which boosts a charge then a strike which involves making a charge, for example. Or, Riven Hourglass can give you Haste which is better with boosts and full-attacks.

Scarlet Throne has a lot of good boosts (Regal/Noble/Royal Blade, Scarlet Eye’s Perception) which work well with single-attack strikes. It also has some good single-attack strikes which can daze or stun, for example. Conversely Ruby Battle Lord's Strike works well with Time Skitter or Sand-Bearer's Swiftness from Riven Hourglass. Consider also Raging Hunter Pounce, even if you don't take any other Primal Fury.

Regardless of your attacking strategy, Riven Hourglass has some great counters and defences, such as Temporal Body Adjustment (read: Iron Heart Surge), Relativity Burst and Beat the Clock (bonus actions! Interrupt others!) or Temporal Distortion (similar). It also has some swift-action strikes, which are good so long as you don't need your swift for a boost.

One minor correction on Fred: You don't actually need both Scarlet Throne and Mithral Current. You just need a single maneuver from either of those known, and then to also be a 5th level initiator, BAB +5, Combat Reflexes and Quick Draw.

Both Warder and Stalker can take the Bushi template, and I highly recommend it. It'll get you some nice perks (recover a maneuver by sheathing is real nice) as well as Quick Draw and the Mithral Current access you need.

No, but the PrC grants them both as known disciplines, so it works best for someone using both. Of course you can just ignore one of them entirely, if you so wish.

I want to like Bushi, but manoeuvre recovery by sheathing is anything other than nice, it's supremely moronic. I just can't get over the whole dumb sheathing thing.

Otherwise, though, it's a decent enough trade. As a Warder you basically lose feats for Bushis, which is kind of eh, but you get EWP and Quick Draw at L1 and all you lose is heavy armour. It looks like a better trade for Stalkers but, whatever. The nice thing is that a Warder Bushi has everything you need to get into Landsknecht aside from the BAB/IL at L1.

One thing I do notice is the Aid Another Bushi. It's probably not of interest for this discussion, but two levels of Bushi Warlord would make a Zealot pretty darn happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
I want to like Bushi, but manoeuvre recovery by sheathing is anything other than nice, it's supremely moronic. I just can't get over the whole dumb sheathing thing.

One thing I do notice is the Aid Another Bushi. It's probably not of interest for this discussion, but two levels of Bushi Warlord would make a Zealot pretty darn happy.
Fluff wise sheathing a weapon does not have to literally be placing the weapon inside a sheath. They even have a brief excerpt about the concept in the Mithril Current section. All you are really doing is repositioning the weapon into a seemingly nonthreatening pose. If you wanted to have some fun with it you could flavor your "sheathing" of your weapon to be taking stylish goofy poses alla Ginyu force style or taunting your foe by seeming to "lower your guard".

As for the Aid Another Bushi combo. As a dip Zealot can certainly make use of it, but I honestly find straight Bushi Warlord to be a superior option when it comes to Aid Another. At 8th level with a high charisma and the Harrying Partner teamwork feat you can literally spend two move actions every turn to boost your entire parties AC and Attack versus a single foe by your Charisma modifier. These benefits last the entire round which is crazy when you consider a properly optimized character at 8th level likely has at least a 6+ Charisma modifier if not more.

I dunno, I don't see how a sword you just used to cut someone's head off can look nonthreatening... Mithral Current is basically based off of Iaijutsu Focus from 3.0, which was only really worth investing in if you could use it over and over again, and led to dumb draw-attack-sheathe builds; it feels like this discipline is an ill-conceived attempt to make that concept viable. I like the idea of the quick drawing and surprising attack stuff but once you have your sword out, the best thing to do is just kill people with it, not sheathe it, try to look nonthreatening with it, balance it on your chin, whatever.

Honestly I've not much looked at the Bushi much as a result, but it's not so much about optimising Aid Another in and of itself as the fact that Zealots can Aid themselves and need to do so to recover manoeuvres; making that powerful means you can just spam a manoeuvre and Aid Another over and over again to great effect (Bilious Strike from Black Seraph is good for this). Warleader + Harrying Partners + Tactical Assistance does look pretty neat, though HP kind of only looks worth the effort when people are making more attacks per round (so higher levels or depending on your party).








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