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AC of 80 at 20th level?

Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
Defending is a weapon enhancement. There's one to let you swap your armour enhancement bonus for a bonus to saves, which would be worthwhile if you were also using a spell for the AC, but not really relevant for this discussion (and anyway, a Monk's Belt is likely to be at least as good even for non-Wis-based characters, as with a +6 Wis item and a tome +5 you're unlikely to have less than a +5 to AC from it, and unarmoured you have no max Dex either).

Luminous Armour's penalty is relevant if you're asking what AC you need to evade a given foe's melee attacks. Then again, I guess that it's still situational in the same way that e.g. Mirror Image is, as some foes will be able to ignore it.
I would advise a re-check of the thread

- the person who mentions the chain shirt doesn't have it a +5, but uses it "as a vehicle" for defending armor-weapons like spikes, thus why I said that it is being used for defending property sacrifices.
-the person who *does* have their armor at a +5 is going the heavy armor optimization route.

No one has mentioned a +5 chain shirt in this thread.

Originally Posted by Avaday Daydream View Post
I don't really know about stacking Defending enchantments on armor/shield spikes and gauntlets and weapons; the wording of the 'Defending' enchantment suggests that you need to be able to use the weapon in order to benefit from the enchantment.
That's clearly how Defending is intended to be used, but most people seem to agree that the letter of it if not the spirit is that you can use it for a bunch of AC bonuses. Whether or not a DM tells you to get out is another matter.
Originally Posted by Avaday Daydream View Post
Inertial Armor can be augmented up to a +13 armor bonus at level 20 ...
Assuming no Overchannel, Wild Surge, or even just Orange Prism Ioun Stone, that is. Psionics can get some crazy-high AC bonuses without even trying that hard.
Originally Posted by Kobold King View Post
I would advise a re-check of the thread
Yes, perhaps that would be wise, but I'll save you the trouble - I was remarking upon Sage's post:
Originally Posted by SageBahamut View Post
Throw on a Mithril Chain Shirt just for the hell of it; you're getting your Armor bonus from the GLA spell anyhow...
...but it does give you a vehicle for both magic vestment...
In fact you'll see that in Sage's calculation he also includes both the AC from Greater Luminous Armour and the enhancement bonus from Magic Vestment.

Typically, the better strategies tend to go unarmoured anyway because you can add a higher Dex that way and there are several bonuses which only apply unarmoured - a PsyWar with Inertial Armour and a Monk's Belt is a good example, and an Abjurant Champion/Arcane Duellist with Greater Luminous and Ascetic Mage is another. Those don't allow shields so heavy armour + (Animated) shield is certainly a competing strategy and totally viable in a typical game, but doesn't tend to break quite such heady heights (if they wanted, those aforementioned examples could use Force Screen or Shield respectively anyway)... I'm not sure if stacking Defending Armour Spikes and Defending Shield Spikes might swing it back the other way, if we're going that route.

@TheFred -- You're probably right about being able to get more mileage with less interpretation required out of using a Monk's Belt and no armor. I did intend to use the Chain Shirt as a vehicle for the spikes/razors but you could get the same mileage out of using those concealed... what are they, like, boot knives? or whatever... from Complete Scoundrel to the same effect.

And a Wis of 18+ isn't hard to come by at level 20, so, yeah, Monk's Belt probably is the way to go there.

It's not the only AC bonus which only applies unarmoured, either, though it is the only(?) one you can just buy. If you have a high Dex, you'll also start running into max Dex bonuses, even with Mithral/Millenial Chainmail/Nimbleness/whatever, unless we're talking Gnome Twist Cloth.

If you've properly dumped Wis then, all things being equal, you might be fine just wearing some armour. Heavy armour's also a perfectly fine way to get a high AC. I suspect though that the highest ACs you can get will be unarmoured (indeed, Dunkirk the Untouchable there is using Monk and no armour).

Hmm...what's the ruling for how armor with the Wild special ability is impacted by polymorph? It's supposed to let you keep your armor bonus while wild-shaped, would that affect other shapeshifting as well?


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