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Character Themes: Nick-Pick Or Nevermind? Was With That?

   
@Beta:
I think the original operative agenda for the Character Theme character building is to make the theme-up character first and slapped the other stuff on it as the next step. Well that's what I been doing since its induction.


Most themes are from an isolated region in a world settings giving the impression that the theme's practice is "commonly" known and respected there as well as the practice is a background's "flavor" consist of more than a skill bonus with the idea of the character of this theme can also grow into an effective member of a warrior or a caster class.

Of'course, this can't be true for all the Character Theme for some actual function like a class with the difference seen clearer with the issuing of only utility powers and the issuing of leveling up attack powers. Naturally with the themes granting the leveling up attack powers will effectively resembles a class option; making the now non-optional class choice(s) thru the regulated background benefits, class' features processing and feats deciding most of skills' choices, proficiencies and other character's essentials

I know taking confident if these Character's Themes are effective as a primary build for a character stands to reason by the player yet my experience shows the can without a doubt if only build in a manner that on every possible occasion in the process following after choosing a theme to build the player take advantage of all Character Theme's features and benefits and doing so creates unavoidable optimized character build.
As matter of fact the only way this could failed in creating an optimized build if the player de-prioritized a theme's feature or benefit in sake of a class' feature or a feat's benefit.

The spirit of implementing the Character Theme into 4E was obvious to assist players in creating only optimized and superior graded player's character builds as the clear and present role identity of the character yet too many players find this as an issue to participate in that only with a regular class identity soundly presented as the character role identity can solve which makes the Character Theme either something the player must nit-pick thru in order to meet some regular image related to a "real class" as the only role base image for a DnD character or that player don't want anything to do with it.
Weird is definite here in this train of thought about what is a Character Theme good for as well as the decisive grounds on why make a completed Character Theme player's character to play DnD with. Yes, if this train of thought is why many are passing on using such a build than something more than called weird is here; like to say something odd is here,

*Shrug* I don't get that train of thought logic. Ok, its odd, now.

I think I get it!

You're placing a restriction on character creation: if a character has a Theme (or maybe it has to have a Theme) then the "options" provided by the theme are now mandatory. If you're a Noble, you have to take the Noble utility powers for 2nd, 6th and 10th level. Or whatever the theme offers. Right?

The intention, if I understand you, is to make the character more like the theme than like the class or race itself. The problem, if I understand you, is that players are having issues with this, because they're not sure how to optimize such a character. But you feel, I think, that it's just like any other restriction, and they can still "optimize" along the lines of those powers, rather than their class or race.

If I've got that right, then I think the problem is that, because they were meant to be optional, themes don't tend to offer anything ground shaking. They augment classes and races more easily than the reverse. So, a player might very well feel that they're basically just giving up power slots to things that they don't see a good way to work with. Even if they want to work with them, as this isn't a restriction that's commonly used, they might not be able to find good resources on the web to help guide them on this issue. They could always ask, though. I bet optimizers would love the challenge of taking a random theme and making it the lynchpin of a dangerous build.

Yes you do get it.

Thanks for your opinion on why there's resistance to the idea.

I guess I see the Character Theme as the option from adhering to direct class focus objectives and thinking when building one's characters but what I don't see is how can one ever fail in seeing the low probability in making a character with all the Character Theme benefits and powers intact that will be anything less than an optimized build character unless the build was intentionally made poorly. Thanks again Beta to pointing out that this isn't the case.

You did say Fey Beast Tamer?
The Ardent is an excellent choice because its insistence on the Leader role with its powers. What you think of the Sentinel, the Artificer, or the Warlord as the support for the Fey Beast Tamer Theme?

The Sentinel with the right Ability scores and the right season can make an interested Defender-like Striker/Controller Fey Beast Tamer.

The Hybrid Artificer class with high Wisdom score to assist a primal class support will make a wicked Fey-Beast Tamer with the buffing up arsenal and buffed up beast it can bring to the party.

Of'course there's the obvious of the brothers' (or sisters') story of the Beast and the Warlord Tag-Team Wreaking crew which also leaves freedom if the hybrid option is use draft some other leader or striker Strenght-focus class to provide style like the Ranger, the Runepriest, The Paladin, or the always underestimated, Warden class.

The Fey-Beast Tamer pretty much just provides a beast companion and the care package for the beast but with a team-focus leader class or a team-protector defender class build, this companion isn't a little matter on the table; its becomes a full-fledged team member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoyRager View Post
You did say Fey Beast Tamer?
I pick on that theme because it seems like people just pick it to have a pet. It gives them another character that's "on their side."

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoyRager View Post
The Ardent is an excellent choice because its insistence on the Leader role with its powers. What you think of the Sentinel, the Artificer, or the Warlord as the support for the Fey Beast Tamer Theme?
I could see all of those. Any class, really. It's an interesting challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoyRager View Post
The Fey-Beast Tamer pretty much just provides a beast companion and the care package for the beast but with a team-focus leader class or a team-protector defender class build, this companion isn't a little matter on the table; its becomes a full-fledged team member.
Yes, I think so. There are lots of obvious and not so obvious synergies. I would think an optimizer would take it as a fun challenge to build around a theme in this way.

I find that people apply to games with a concept in mind that they've been working on for a while and want to try out, so build restrictions are puzzling to them and they push back, trying to shoehorn in their concept. Do you have an example of a response you've gotten to this approach?

I think the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like themes? If they have, you know you've got a winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProximaC View Post
I think the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like themes? If they have, you know you've got a winner.
Good point. I'm really into the idea, moreso than before. I think having to pick a theme and focus on that first would help make characters feel like they're more tied into the game. Dark Sun (which is the only setting I'm aware of that has themes specific to it) is highly thematic, and so it would be very appropriate to say "Don't think of yourself as a fighter or thief or psion. You have some of those abilities, but first and foremost you're an inhabitant of Athas, and your character should greatly reflect that via dedication to a theme." I'd be way into that as a player.

I looked over your game ad. It looks like some people were confused, but only one person took actual issue with it and was told by another that the concerns seemed exaggerated.

I understand now that when you say "nick-pick or nevermind" you're referring to players wanting to pick some of both theme and non-theme powers, or losing interest.

Yeah and this nit-picking (originally misspelled) immediately defeats the building challenge of the game.

I have a point to light homebrew world with many localized regional settings created by a template taken directly from the settings the Character Themes were originated from. My original vision on the adventurers I was expecting was faulty though mainly because I did a no-brainer by failing to account for the players' character build choices which created adventuring groups consist of characters with wide range of different themes and some of these themes (coincidentally ironic; a majority of the choices submitted) were presets of region in my point of light world giving me a lot of joy creating cover stories for the players' character on how did they get to the area where the campaign is located. (So overall this been great for me because it also created opportunities to fill-in more details about the world for all the players in all the campaigns played in this settings). I'm having a great time here but...

...Only
In Deep And Lost In The Novinota Wilds
one of the major four campaigns this world is actively in the ran column where I would preferred, I mean, at least, like to get the Paragon Path up and running also.

Hmmmm....
ProximaC might be onto to something with the hints of turning this thread into a clinic on how to optimized Character Theme.

If you two are game (Beta C; Prox;) I'm game and I will start by using Beta Centari approach suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Centauri View Post
...and so it would be very appropriate to say "Don't think of yourself as a fighter or thief or psion. You have some of those abilities, but first and foremost...

...and your character should greatly reflect that via dedication to a theme." I'd be way into that as a player.
Well, when I start on the objective of building an optimized character I mainly start asking myself a simple question? "What can my new super-cool DnD character can do?"

But for this instance I will only use ideas off the top of my mind by I grabbing the first three:

Teleportation
Burst power attacks
End of turn movement.


Now what the requirements are because building a character shouldn't have limitation so I don't see limitation just restrictions I call requirements aand address them as that.

Complete Character Theme package.

That's it! Let's called my first three ideas the requirement instead of The "Theme", Ok?

Yeah I think I will built my character and ignored that other requirement which is the Character Theme for now yet always be alert that I have to pick one so if I find something that can support or assist my new theme then I grabbed that one.

Yeah! This should be easy.

Let's see "Teleportation, Burst attacks, move action powers or/and movement benefits are the new theme to follow so I can presented an optimized character and while I'm researching my options I will check back here later and see what you two feel about joining this exercise. (Remember, I went with the first catch phrase terms that came up to me which right now on thinking about what I'm about to do, its kinda starting to feel challenging after-all.)

I don't have much of a head for actual optimization, but it's an interesting challenge, so I might give it some thought.

I was reading the section in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos about themes and it even mentions the idea of using a theme as a starting point, though of course it doesn't mandate using all of the theme's powers.

I kind of; to say, knew that there never been a direct recommendation on applying the complete theme build even for the settings they were created for even with all the benefits making the Character Theme into complete class' options were published but when I saw these complete themes is when I started to look at all the other themes that wasn't fully outfitted like the typical class option differently and in a studious way.

...here it is

I don't have at this time the time to get into describing what I have done above in the box and to explained why that the first impression of "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT! ITS LOOKS LIKE A MESS!!" is far, far from the truth. This one is a Scion Of Shadow Character Theme's controller build using the Seeker's class' strategy and doing so with a smooth and sweet Raven Queen's signature.

If you become determine to prove its either a bad striker or a good striker you will fail both ways mainly because as a second role this optimized build is a better than good leader and an average to good defender, both before it will be found matching what one will normally see from the normal to average level 12 striker.
Also compared to optimized level 12 controllers I had seen in the past including
Beta knows of my long-standing steady Warlord/Wizard called Krist Breeze, that will never be mistaken as a Character Theme build because she's a pure and fun hybrid play. She also my best upper heroic build
the one I normally use, I must say I seen better level 12 controllers but as for versatile prowess' depth from a single level 12 character than I must admit even with its difficult to blend into a rhythm of abilities and powers for executing as smooth flowing fluid, this one is in the same league with the best of level 12 builds that shakes, moves and eh, heh... leads 'em within a round after within a round, after within a round then so on, and so on, and onward.

Sorry, I have some dm-ing I have been neglecting I should get back to and with rl already making this project longer than I was expecting it would had taking I will have to return back to this thread later on to answer any questions and check out what you two have to donate for this discussion.
See y'all then...




 

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