Maiming rules showcase and review - Page 7 - OG Myth-Weavers

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Maiming rules showcase and review

   
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Not about liking the equipment. I love kitting out mooks in unique and underutilized equipment. Believe it or not, there is already more armor in 3.5 than your house rules give. I love "brute squads" and garbage militiamen joining the fights and it's even better when they start pulling out silly weapons and wear armor no PC would want to use.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
But at the same time, the weapon improvements help martials kill casters faster. Especially the presence of long-ranged firearms with fast attack rates, once those get brought out they can shoot casters out of the sky really quickly. It's not hard to dish out ~100 damage per round.
Avoiding damage is not something casters have a hard time doing. Something as simple as Fog Cloud lets a caster follow up with AoE debuffs that don't need sight or attack rolls, or just plain damage if you want to go that route. There are many, many ways for a caster to overcome Energy Resistance, as well. Or just use spells that don't allow for it.

The guns help in a straight damage fight or a fight where they already have the advantage but don't anything to prevent something like Stinking Cloud. It's already not difficult to dish over 100 damage per round.

That's not the solution to casters. Armor as ER and the
I'll also use this moment to bug you about the Buckler nerf. There are some historical bucklers that used the D&D style "free hand" shield. They were mostly used by archers on their bow-holding arm, but not seen in footsoldiers.

Might I suggest doing two things?
Making bucklers able to bash, as that was half their intended purpose and to add a Archer's/Gunner's shield similar to D&D's original buckler.
shield buff is.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I meant the strength bonus is a thing they wouldn't get, so I picked 14 as an average. Also, most NPCs don't have PC strength scores, 14 is actually pretty standard for a 5th level NPC.
Most NPCs, notably those in 99% of Modules and Monster Listings, use the Elite Array. 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
A combat-focused 5th level NPC would likely have a strength of 14-16.

Besides, there are dozens of ways to get something other than Strength to damage.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
And can your bow get a 300ft range increment? Because a rifle can.
Yes.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Oh, and can you get an arrow that never misses,
Functionally, yes.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
can hit multiple targets or
Yes.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
even the same target more than once, and
Yes.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
is reusable? Because there are musket balls with that ability.
Yes. Or they just not use ammunition.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Or maybe you have a crossbow that can hit literally dozens of times per round and almost immediately destroy any target without serious DR? A repeating shotgun can do that.
Not dozens of times per round, but yes.

I'll say it again:
Your guns are big 'ol blocks of numbers that can throw dice at things. That is not unique. The guaranteed hit musket ball is the most unique item, but that can still be potentially defeated by things like Wind Wall and is not a common solution due to price.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I have zero interest in ever doing anything on those forums with that community again as long as I live. I have one ongoing game there, and beyond that I am done with the lot of them.
Well, now that's just shootin' yourself in the foot.

Your houserules definitely end up making humanoids the top dogs, defeating many unmodified and unintelligent Monster Manual threats as well as low-op, under-equipped NPCs with relative ease. But it becomes very questionable once the players get involved.

I showed you what an Iconic character does with your numbers, and Iconic character builds are pretty laughable. I feel like you did test them in private on your own, but that, and I hate when I say things like this, that "your own" is a very small section of the system as a whole.

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Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
Right, OK, but in regular fights, not everyone is going to be a lancer wearing heavy lancer armour. Are you OK with the guy on a horse charging everyone dealing massive damage to all of them except anyone outfitted like him?
Not as much as I just can't stop it without nerfing the living hell out of lances.

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And how much DR does the mega-heavy armour offer anyway? Probably not enough, and if it is enough then regular weapons will find it almost impossible to bypass a lot of the time.
Already listed.

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Have you tested it against non-crazy, mid-plus-optimisation, standard player builds?
Yes.

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That means doing 10, maybe going on 20 damage average at L1 (when you can afford a greatsword but not very good armour) and much more, maybe into triple figures by the high levels. Using 14 Str as the average for L5 is fairly meaningless because it's not the average of the people who will be attacking.
Dealing triple figures per round is easy. Dealing triple figures per hit is not, unless you're ubercharging. I have tested the armour against player builds with appropriate weapons, yes. The DR works, and it works well as long as you keep upgrading, and there's adamantine-reinforced armour (as a wondrous item) and fighter-only feats if you want to get really even more DR than listed.

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There's no reason that NPCs can't be every bit as tough as PCs, but if you're building weaker NPCs then obviously they will be weaker.
You mean aside from NPC classes seriously sucking?

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Point is, you need to put people up against realistic threats.
A 5th level warrior NPC is a realistic threat for a 5th level character. My example stands.

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Doubtful. Crit chances are at best 1/4 with Imp Crit or Keen (which doesn't come online until a good few levels in) without any unusual boosts,
Not to nit-pick, but I see 30%.

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and you still need to confirm; if your attacks are maiming anyway because of all that extra damage from Power Attack then you don't really need to crit at all. Now OK, if you can only even hit on a 15-20 then maybe there's no point in having that bonus damage as a crit would have done it for you anyway, but a little PA can go a long way and it's a lower investment and is more flexible too.
Then just use a little power attack, don't throw away your entire BaB.

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Well, it's not, because spellcasters can hit you from over ten times as far away and are probably flat-out immune to ranged attacks one way or another anyway, but that's not really relevant because spellcasters.
That isn't how range increments work. A character with a 300ft increment only takes a penalty every 300ft and can attack up to 3000ft away. As in, half a mile and change. Spell range, however, IS a hard maximum, and that's why it's so far.

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Hmm... this feels a little strange to me, since most every other form of bleeding or similar ongoing damage in D&D is stopped with healing magic or a Heal check, including the health loss from dying.
Healing 1hp to stop bleeding makes bleeding effects totally worthless. That's the reasoning here.

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It seems a bit strange to me that you can heal someone up to full health but then they will carry on losing hp again.
Now hold on, you didn't say anything about healing to full hp or making heal checks, you just asked about healing, and specific went on about 1hp heals. My standard rules auto-stabilize at full hp and allow a heal check at 10 - hp, I see no reason that wouldn't also work here.

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1/2 HP as a threshold is unlikely to cause any problems; if you're dealing 1/2 someone's health to them in a single hit that's pretty bad anyway and you only have to do it twice and they're properly dead for real. With a save on the damage, I'd be tempted to go 1/4 HP.
Noted. Still testing all of them.

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Linking it to HP also means that anyone who would normally be able to withstand more hits can now withstand a similarly greater amount of punishment from a single hit. 2xHD is too low, 4xHD is maybe better but I don't think scales right; you'd be better off with something like, I dunno, 5 + 3xHD, so that it is a bit lower at the higher levels and a bit higher at the lower levels.
Also noted. Those two are unlikely to be the final choice.

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L1 combat is already crazy-deadly anyway so having a threshold which doesn't come up often is not a big deal.
I don't really care about level 1 combat and I don't use it. I've made my statements on why already. (The summary is that level 1 characters are worthless.)

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In regular rules there is already a massive damage threshold at 50 hp so making the L20 one close to that is not so crazy either, though the DC in the regular rules is so weak that anyone who can expect to take 50 damage in one hit can usually expect to make the save on a 2, which means it's just going to suck 5% of the time.
Yeah, I never even bothered rolling massive damage in the standard rules. Not one time.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Not as much as I just can't stop it without nerfing the living hell out of lances.
If lances are going to be a problem, you could nerf them a bit. Perhaps make them do +a bit on a charge, for example, instead of x2, but leave Spirited Charge the same (it's a fairly large investment) or vice versa. That way they are still better than everything else when you're charging but a few points of damage better, not 50% again.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Already listed.
I find the presentation a little difficult to read, especially when there are materials involved as well, plus there's a conversion to £ going on. Like, what's the typical assault armour, Assault Plate? That gives DR 5, and what, I add royal steel for x4? But I don't know how much that will cost (in real terms) or what level is might be affordable at. At any rate, it looks like we're topping out at maybe 25 points which is a lot but can still be out-damaged.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Yes.
And what was the result [of testing it against non-crazy, mid-plus-optimisation, standard player builds]? Because it looks to me like you will be getting maims a lot of the time, especially given that players who know that this is happening will focus on raw damage numbers over other things to make sure that they can maim a lot of the time.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Dealing triple figures per round is easy. Dealing triple figures per hit is not, unless you're ubercharging.
Eh... I mean, it depends what you mean by "easy", but it's not hard. There are several ways to do it - though you don't even need to deal triple figures, necessarily. 30 damage a hit is pretty much a minimum (greatsword 7 + Str 10x1.5 + enhancement 5 is already 27... even Weapon Spec puts you up to 29) and Shock Trooper alone adds 40 to that. If I'm a gish I can use some subset of Ferocity of the Sanguine Rage, Bite of the Werebear, Arcane Strike, Wraithstrike + Power Attack etc etc to get above 100 easily... now OK, a lot of those things are a little overpowered (I mean, casters are overpowered) so you don't necessarily want to calibrate the entire game around them, but hell, you don't have to be terribly creative to 100+ even as a big stupid fighter (Strongarm Bracers, Collision weapon, Rage, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, few little boosting items like Armbands of Might, Torc of the Titans, Gauntlets of War, etc, even Weapon Spec, Monkey Grip, Cobalt Power, etc).
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
You mean aside from NPC classes seriously sucking?
There's no reason that NPCs have to use NPC classes. An NPC is just anyone who isn't a PC, and the point (which I think you are possibly missing) is that weak NPCs are going to be easy to beat, so if you measure weak NPCs against your players then obviously they will not seem like a threat.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
A 5th level warrior NPC is a realistic threat for a 5th level character. My example stands.
One L5 warrior to one L5 character? Quite possibly. But, if you go by the DMG guidelines, some encounters should be at the high end of "very difficult", at CR +4 which is exactly as powerful as the players themselves, and fully 5% should be more difficult than that.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Then just use a little power attack, don't throw away your entire BaB.
I think you're missing the point; I wasn't trying to debate what the optimal amount of power attack is in any situation (though in many, it will be your entire BAB, especially with DR and maiming rules favouring single big hits - you'll often be better off making a bunch of attacks, hitting once, and doing big damage and maiming than hitting a lot of times but not getting through DR) but rather point out that using Power Attack at all will often be a great idea and that most people will be doing it.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
That isn't how range increments work. A character with a 300ft increment only takes a penalty every 300ft and can attack up to 3000ft away. As in, half a mile and change. Spell range, however, IS a hard maximum, and that's why it's so far.
Spellcasters can get plenty of range even on their spells, or they could be archers themselves (like the aforementioned Arcane Archer, who gets to use her bow range on any AoE spell she casts) - but again, missing the point. What I'm saying is that a) guns don't hold up to casters anyway and b) I don't really care about guns right now, I'm suggesting you try to deal with one thing at a time.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Healing 1hp to stop bleeding makes bleeding effects totally worthless. That's the reasoning here.
To be frank, 1hp bleeding is pretty much worthless, regardless. On reflection, I probably wouldn't even bother healing myself above the lower levels because I'd rather kill the guys potentially dealing meaningful damage to me (or firing off save-or-elses which make me lose outright) than worry about the thing which might kill me 10 minutes later.

Healing to stop any bleeding doesn't make it totally worthless (healing will usually take an action, still, which is one that can't be spent on something else) but it does make it weak. However, the "healing does nothing" rule feels a bit clunky; it's unrealistic and isn't the only way to stop the problem. You could make the bleeding amounts greater (perhaps linked to the amount of damage you took or how much you fail that fort save by) and perhaps say that healing only reduces the bleeding (until it's reduced to zero).
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Now hold on, you didn't say anything about healing to full hp or making heal checks, you just asked about healing, and specific went on about 1hp heals. My standard rules auto-stabilize at full hp and allow a heal check at 10 - hp, I see no reason that wouldn't also work here.
Well, OK, that is maybe a bit better though full hp-1 doesn't feel much different to full hp. It also means that I really can just ignore bleeding, and heal back up to full after the fight is done... or, actually, now I think about it at all, I can just make a DC 0 Heal check (unless I am on really low health). That Heal DC is only likely to be an issue at, like, L1.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I don't really care about level 1 combat and I don't use it. I've made my statements on why already. (The summary is that level 1 characters are worthless.)
Well in that case, you don't need to worry about whether the model works at L1, then.

I am a little surprised by this, though. You dislike how the numbers work at L1 so you've gone and changed all the numbers - why not just make it work for L1 too, since we're here anyway, rather than completely shunning it? In fact, it seems like your rules will work better at the lower levels (maybe not actually L1, since that really is quite swingy, but a level or two in) than at the higher ones (which are way swingier than L1).

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Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
If lances are going to be a problem, you could nerf them a bit. Perhaps make them do +a bit on a charge, for example, instead of x2, but leave Spirited Charge the same (it's a fairly large investment) or vice versa. That way they are still better than everything else when you're charging but a few points of damage better, not 50% again.
I could just have the multiplier only apply to the weapon's dice.

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I find the presentation a little difficult to read, especially when there are materials involved as well, plus there's a conversion to £ going on. Like, what's the typical assault armour, Assault Plate? That gives DR 5, and what, I add royal steel for x4? But I don't know how much that will cost (in real terms) or what level is might be affordable at. At any rate, it looks like we're topping out at maybe 25 points which is a lot but can still be out-damaged.
Without wondrous items, feats, racial bonuses, class features or spells, yes. 25 is the most you can get.

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And what was the result [of testing it against non-crazy, mid-plus-optimisation, standard player builds]? Because it looks to me like you will be getting maims a lot of the time, especially given that players who know that this is happening will focus on raw damage numbers over other things to make sure that they can maim a lot of the time.
With a 2x HD maim threshold, yes. I'll put up a full set of damage comparisons when I get home in about eight hours.

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Eh... I mean, it depends what you mean by "easy", but it's not hard. There are several ways to do it - though you don't even need to deal triple figures, necessarily. 30 damage a hit is pretty much a minimum (greatsword 7 + Str 10x1.5 + enhancement 5 is already 27... even Weapon Spec puts you up to 29)
With a greatsword, sure. But what about with, say, a scimitar? Not everybody uses a two-hander.

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and Shock Trooper alone adds 40 to that.
Trading AC instead of attack adds 40? You must not be sufficiently concerned about sudden pointy death when everybody readies against your charge for 2x damage.

But then again, AC is worthless.

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There's no reason that NPCs have to use NPC classes. An NPC is just anyone who isn't a PC, and the point (which I think you are possibly missing) is that weak NPCs are going to be easy to beat, so if you measure weak NPCs against your players then obviously they will not seem like a threat.
I didn't say they had to use NPC classes, but most NPCs do nonetheless. I use them mostly at 5th level or lower, and rarely above 10th.

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One L5 warrior to one L5 character? Quite possibly. But, if you go by the DMG guidelines, some encounters should be at the high end of "very difficult", at CR +4 which is exactly as powerful as the players themselves, and fully 5% should be more difficult than that.
Not hard, even with mooks.

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To be frank, 1hp bleeding is pretty much worthless, regardless. On reflection, I probably wouldn't even bother healing myself above the lower levels because I'd rather kill the guys potentially dealing meaningful damage to me (or firing off save-or-elses which make me lose outright) than worry about the thing which might kill me 10 minutes later.
I realize it's weak. And I had bleeding trigger often and stack specifically because it's weak.

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Healing to stop any bleeding doesn't make it totally worthless (healing will usually take an action, still, which is one that can't be spent on something else) but it does make it weak. However, the "healing does nothing" rule feels a bit clunky; it's unrealistic and isn't the only way to stop the problem. You could make the bleeding amounts greater (perhaps linked to the amount of damage you took or how much you fail that fort save by) and perhaps say that healing only reduces the bleeding (until it's reduced to zero).
I'll show you my new plan when I get home, it has frequent bleeding but maiming only on knockout.

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Well, OK, that is maybe a bit better though full hp-1 doesn't feel much different to full hp. It also means that I really can just ignore bleeding, and heal back up to full after the fight is done... or, actually, now I think about it at all, I can just make a DC 0 Heal check (unless I am on really low health). That Heal DC is only likely to be an issue at, like, L1.
Kinda the point. But a standard action that provokes an AoO is a bit hard in combat and what if a character is at, say, -35 with the -100% death rule? Grats, heal DC is 45. Good luck.

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Well in that case, you don't need to worry about whether the model works at L1, then.

I am a little surprised by this, though. You dislike how the numbers work at L1 so you've gone and changed all the numbers - why not just make it work for L1 too, since we're here anyway, rather than completely shunning it? In fact, it seems like your rules will work better at the lower levels (maybe not actually L1, since that really is quite swingy, but a level or two in) than at the higher ones (which are way swingier than L1).
No, see, I hate level 1 in general, not how this rule behaves at it.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I'll show you my new plan when I get home, it has frequent bleeding but maiming only on knockout.
I've run games with this, especially in E6 settings. Though I do it mostly to ramp down lethality, not up, while still making combat have consequences. I'd be happy to post my own set of stuff, but I think it might not be helpful if you're looking for more of a high-lethality set up.

So, firstly, the system I've decided to put as the front-runner when we go into testing, and the others below it.

Saveless bleed 1/4 MD, maiming knockouts:
A character who receives damage equal to or greater than one quarter their maximum hit points in one round (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) is considered to have taken massive damage, even if this is done by multiple attacks. Every time massive damage is inflicted, a character begins bleeding for 1hp/round. A character can receive this multiple times per round, per attack or even per hit if an attack. For example, an attack that deals 20 damage to a character with 40hp will cause them to bleed 2hp/round. Bleeding has a 1% chance to stabilize each round, immediately curing all ongoing bleed effects. If a character is at full health, bleeding instead stabilizes immediately. Bleeding may also be cured with a heal check with a DC of 10 - HP, which gets higher as their health falls below 0.

Additionally, a character who has their hit points reduced to 0 or below by an attack (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) additionally bleeds for one hit point per hit die and is maimed.

When a character is maimed by a non-critical hit, roll 1d6 to determine the effect. If the attack is a critical hit, it is either a chest or head wound, the latter of which bypasses the armour DR of enemies without helmets (as criticals do by default) and both are different.

1-2: Arm crippled, preventing one arm from being used. This lasts one week and can be cured with lesser restoration. If the arm is already crippled, it is instead permanently dismembered, which can only be cured using regenerate. The closer arm is the arm crippled, and if both are equally exposed than a 1 strikes the off arm and a 2 strikes the main arm.

3-4: Leg crippled, preventing the affected character from running and reducing their speed to that of a character under a heavy load. This lasts one week and can be cured with restoration. If the leg is already crippled, it is instead permanently dismembered, which can only be cured using regenerate and additionally prevents a character from standing, making movement a full-round action. Both legs being crippled causes a character to become overburdened. The closer leg is the leg crippled, and if both are equally exposed than a 3 strikes the left leg and a 4 strikes the right leg.

5. A wound is inflicted to a character's vital organs, inflicting 4 points of ability damage. Roll 1d3 to determine if this is dealt to strength, dexterity or constitution.

6. Roll twice and combine. Any additional rolls of 6 will each result in one additional effect.

Chest wound:
A wound is inflicted to the character's most vital organs in the middle of their chest, inflicting ability drain. Roll 1d3 twice to determine the affected attributes. On 1 drain 4 strength, on 2 drain 4 dexterity, on 3 drain 4 constitution. Choosing this forfeits a critical hit's ability to bypass DR from armour.

Head wounds:
A wound is inflicted to the character's brain, inflicting ability drain. Roll 1d6 twice to determine the affected attributes. On 1 drain 4 strength, on 2 drain 4 dexterity, on 3 drain 4 constitution, on 4 drain 4 intelligence, on 5 drain 4 faith*, on 6 drain charisma.

*In any other setting, that would be wisdom.

Saveless bleed 2x MD, maiming knockouts:
A character who receives equal to or greater than twice their hit dice in damage in one round (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) is considered to have taken massive damage, even if this is done by multiple hits. Every time massive damage is inflicted, a character begins bleeding for 1hp/round. A character can receive this multiple times per round, per attack or even per hit if an attack. For example, an attack that deals 20 damage to a 5th-level character will cause them to bleed for 4hp/round. Bleeding has a 1% chance to stabilize each round, immediately curing all ongoing bleed effects. If a character is at full health, bleeding instead stabilizes immediately. Bleeding may also be cured with a heal check with a DC of 10 - HP, which gets higher as their health falls below 0.

Additionally, a character who has their hit points reduced to 0 or below by an attack (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) additionally bleeds for one hit point per hit die and is maimed. (The maiming rules are the same as above.)

Save or maim 1/4 MD, maiming knockouts:
A character who receives damage equal to or greater than one quarter their maximum hit points in one round (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) is considered to have taken massive damage, even if this is done by multiple attacks. Every time massive damage is inflicted, a character receives a maiming injury and begins bleeding for 1hp/round. A fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/4 damage negates the maiming effect, but not the bleeding. A character can receive this multiple times per round, per attack or even per hit if an attack. For example, an attack that deals 20 damage to a character with 40hp will cause them to bleed 2hp/round. Bleeding has a 1% chance to stabilize each round, immediately curing all ongoing bleed effects. If a character is at full health, bleeding instead stabilizes immediately. Bleeding may also be cured with a heal check with a DC of 10 - HP, which gets higher as their health falls below 0.

Additionally, a character who has their hit points reduced to 0 or below by an attack (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) additionally bleeds for one hit point per hit die and is maimed with no saving throw.

Save or maim 2x MD, maiming knockouts:
A character who receives damage equal to or greater than twice their hit dice in one round (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) is considered to have taken massive damage, even if this is done by multiple attacks. Every time massive damage is inflicted, a character receives a maiming injury and begins bleeding for 1hp/round. A fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/4 damage negates the maiming effect, but not the bleeding. A character can receive this multiple times per round, per attack or even per hit if an attack. For example, an attack that deals 20 damage to a 5th-level character will cause them to bleed 4hp/round. Bleeding has a 1% chance to stabilize each round, immediately curing all ongoing bleed effects. If a character is at full health, bleeding instead stabilizes immediately. Bleeding may also be cured with a heal check with a DC of 10 - HP, which gets higher as their health falls below 0.

Additionally, a character who has their hit points reduced to 0 or below by an attack (excluding by bleeding, poison, disease, positive and negative energy) additionally bleeds for one hit point per hit die and is maimed with no saving throw.

I'll do DR vs damage later. It's the first day of my weekend, after all.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
With a greatsword, sure. But what about with, say, a scimitar? Not everybody uses a two-hander.
Everyone who's trying for big damage uses a two-hander (and Platinum Fullblade > Greatsword anyway ), unless they have some other strategy - crit-fishing with a scimitar or being a Dervish, maybe... though with the DR rules, I'd be tempted to go Falchion since two-handed is generally better than single or dual-wielding anyway, and you've just made the latter even worse.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Trading AC instead of attack adds 40? You must not be sufficiently concerned about sudden pointy death when everybody readies against your charge for 2x damage.

But then again, AC is worthless.
AC is not worthless but of course there are much better things. Your DR rules actually favour charging the sudden pointy death anyway because even when I have low AC, at least I have DR - but anyway, who even readies against a charge? If they do, don't charge them! Unless they're that one person who has that magic weapon which counts as readied all the time (I forget the name, MIC I think) then you're better off just killing them really quickly and taking the AC hit, especially since there are so many ways to mitigate that. But anyway, Shock Trooper is one strategy - there are other ways of getting damage (some worse, like Wraithstrike + Power Attack gish).
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I didn't say they had to use NPC classes, but most NPCs do nonetheless. I use them mostly at 5th level or lower, and rarely above 10th.
...
Not hard, even with mooks.
I'm not really sure what the conclusion is here...?

The point is, some portion of encounters should be of a roughly equal strength to the actual PCs. That may mean building NPCs with similar stats, PC classes, etc, or it may mean other things but of equivalent power. Either way, we have to imagine that everyone is facing up to the same kind of offence they can dish out. It doesn't make sense to balance it solely around what damage numbers a dumb, under-levelled NPC can manage.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Kinda the point. But a standard action that provokes an AoO is a bit hard in combat and what if a character is at, say, -35 with the -100% death rule? Grats, heal DC is 45. Good luck.
Why would you be at -35? You get hit once, start bleeding, whatever, then the fight's over and you DC 0 it. If you were going to hit -35, you'd be dead under normal rules anyway so you've not really lost anything.

To be honest, this all just feels like unnecessary complication without really improving the balance or adding to the feel or apparent realism of the thing.

Your newer rule seems better (and actually, I think I like the "total damage per round" thing since it means single-big-hitting isn't quite so favoured) though the flat -1hp/round means that if I have 1000hp and I take 250 damage, I'm going to be suffer bleeding which will kill me... 1 hour and 15 minutes later, if I don't stabilise naturally (there is a 99.95% chance that I will) or manage a DC -740 Heal check in that time. Now OK, that's an unlikely amount of health for anything other than some kind of epic monster; point is just that 1hp/round at the low levels is a big deal, but this doesn't scale well.

Personally, I think I would prefer magical healing to do something. Seems crazy that a DC 0 Heal will cure you but a Cure Critial Wounds won't, even when it's a very minor bleed. Perhaps I'd have only specific Cure spell help - maybe Cure Serious lowers the bleed by 1 and Critical cures it all or something. That might actually make in-combat healing slightly more attractive, actually, or at least give people a bit of a reason to use those higher-level ones.

Also, why ability drain from a head or chest wound? Seems weird.

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Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
Everyone who's trying for big damage uses a two-hander (and Platinum Fullblade > Greatsword anyway ), unless they have some other strategy - crit-fishing with a scimitar or being a Dervish, maybe... though with the DR rules, I'd be tempted to go Falchion since two-handed is generally better than single or dual-wielding anyway, and you've just made the latter even worse.
I get what you mean normally about two-weapon fighting, but what about a character who uses dex for damage, has sneak attack, or both? If you use dex for damage two-weapon fighting is no longer MAD, if you sneak attack two-weapon fighting lets you sneak attack 1-2 extra times per round and that's most of your damage, and if you have both two-weapon fighting is suddenly extremely powerful.

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AC is not worthless but of course there are much better things. Your DR rules actually favour charging the sudden pointy death anyway because even when I have low AC, at least I have DR
DR isn't very effective when you're up against a spear that's readied for double damage.

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- but anyway, who even readies against a charge?
Anybody who sees you with a lance and a horse who is within range to be charged, specifically because it creates a scenario where you can't attack them without taking heavy damage and losing your horse.

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Why would you be at -35? You get hit once, start bleeding, whatever, then the fight's over and you DC 0 it. If you were going to hit -35, you'd be dead under normal rules anyway so you've not really lost anything.

To be honest, this all just feels like unnecessary complication without really improving the balance or adding to the feel or apparent realism of the thing.
It feels like you didn't read this very thoroughly. Did you miss the "-100% death" part?

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Your newer rule seems better (and actually, I think I like the "total damage per round" thing since it means single-big-hitting isn't quite so favoured) though the flat -1hp/round means that if I have 1000hp and I take 250 damage, I'm going to be suffer bleeding which will kill me... 1 hour and 15 minutes later, if I don't stabilise naturally (there is a 99.95% chance that I will) or manage a DC -740 Heal check in that time. Now OK, that's an unlikely amount of health for anything other than some kind of epic monster; point is just that 1hp/round at the low levels is a big deal, but this doesn't scale well.
Ah, right, I had this thought while I was writing that as well, so I set knockouts to 1hp/hd, and I guess I forgot to change it or something. I could have sworn I made the edit, but I may have pasted back over it to copy a different change. This is what you get when you write a paragraph once, copy+paste and change relevant parts, it's less likely you'll notice errors.

Yes, it's true that as written that would be the case, but with what I meant to write you'd lose a lot more. Let's say your ridiculous 1,000hp is from 50hd, you'd be bleeding for 50/round. Then it'd only take 90 seconds to knock you out and another two minutes to kill you.

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Personally, I think I would prefer magical healing to do something. Seems crazy that a DC 0 Heal will cure you but a Cure Critial Wounds won't, even when it's a very minor bleed. Perhaps I'd have only specific Cure spell help - maybe Cure Serious lowers the bleed by 1 and Critical cures it all or something. That might actually make in-combat healing slightly more attractive, actually, or at least give people a bit of a reason to use those higher-level ones.
Magical healing DOES do something. It gives you far longer to recover from your injury, it can stop the bleeding entirely if it maxes out your hit points, and restoration spells can stop any amount of bleeding outright.

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Also, why ability drain from a head or chest wound? Seems weird.
You don't see why you may be permanently impaired by a brain, heart or spinal cord injury?

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
I get what you mean normally about two-weapon fighting, but what about a character who uses dex for damage, has sneak attack, or both? If you use dex for damage two-weapon fighting is no longer MAD, if you sneak attack two-weapon fighting lets you sneak attack 1-2 extra times per round and that's most of your damage, and if you have both two-weapon fighting is suddenly extremely powerful.
And then it's suddenly not when you add in your DR rules. Especially since Dex to Damage with Two-Weapon Fighting and Sneak Attack would require access to sources you do not allow. Either that or some awkward multiclassing whose progression would result in a less-than-ideal outcome. Doubly so when you know you likely won't be triggering Sneak Attack all the time.

Being able to do 1d6+3d6+4 damage is pretty nice if you can hit consistently, but if your opponent is wearing armor that gives him DR 10 you're still doing less than the two-handed dude.

That's not a problem with your houserules, it's a problem in the system that your houserules exacerbate, seemingly unintentionally. Doubly so when you considered that the Rules Compendium lists that Sneak Attack is not rolled at all if the basic weapon damage does not break DR. My TWF in your game would likely be using a two-hander+armor spikes. In fact, I have questions regarding similar things in your currently advertising game.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
DR isn't very effective when you're up against a spear that's readied for double damage.
Under your model, that's about (1d10+3)x2 for a 14 Strength Steel Spear. Even against Tattered Layered Clothing, that's an average of 15 damage. Oh no, what a nightmare to my 5th level 14 Con Barbarian's average 48+20 Rage HP. Slap on the thing to intended to be used for charging characters (Steel Assault Armor) and we're looking at an average of two damage from our spearman on a set vs. charge. Even if we switch to the d10 Fighter or Paladin (or the d12 Knight), we're laughing off that damage unless it's coming in multiple times. The venerable Halberd fares a *bit* better, as does getting into the 2d6 Exotic weapons, but that's some serious extrapolation.

This is why you rarely see the Set tactic used in play. If your opponent is telegraphing that he will charge, it's usually better to avoid the charge instead of hoping you can 1HKO him.

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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Anybody who sees you with a lance and a horse who is within range to be charged, specifically because it creates a scenario where you can't attack them without taking heavy damage and losing your horse.
Unless the offense gets an ambush or wins initiative.
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Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
You don't see why you may be permanently impaired by a brain, heart or spinal cord injury?
We see why, but we don't see why it needs to affect the player in such a way. The player is MUCH more likely to be affected something. A vast majority of the time, an NPC is defeated at the end of combat and then they disappear from the player's story. However, the greatest subject of your injury rules will be the player purely by merit of being in multiple combats.

If someone takes 4 points of ability drain to any one of the physical stats, at second worst they're either retired or a burden. At best, you seek out a 7th level Cleric to hit you with a 290gp Restoration.
It seems like nothing more than an annoyance, but do you really need to pester your players with annoyances?

Especially since the burden might be heavier than you think. You may not have access to such healing magic, like what I image your currently advertising game will be like. And if the TWF gets hit with a Dex penalty, they may actually lose access to TWF due to the drain. Same with the Trip/Combat Maneuver Fighter and the Int requirement for Combat Expertise. Or Power Attack.

Or, god forbid, losing entire class features due to losing Dodge, a common prerequisite for Prestige Classes.




 

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