I miss the old conservatives - Page 10 - Myth-Weavers

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I miss the old conservatives

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonBarbarian View Post

However, perhaps we could create an environment where we work together on issues we mutually agree with, and sort of ignore the one's we don't agree on, say abortion or gay marriage. Sort work towards a greater good rather than necessarily fusing the ideas per say. Sort of a tolerance and willingness to work with one another instead of combining the ideas. And maybe trying to win them over to our side.
I think this is already what Republicans are trying to do. I think they assumed that healthcare was one of those issues they mutually agreed on, but it turned out it wasn't. I think there are some factors that will make your suggestions difficult:

-How can tolerance and a willingness to work together be achieved when compromise is seen as a weakness in politics today? Many politicians are elected on campaigns promising to not work with others, and for the most part are living up to that promise.

-How can more far right conservatives be won over when there's easy access to websites and other sources of information that validate rather than challenge their ideas? It's getting only more difficult to show people alternative viewpoints as niche markets continue to rise.

-As the topic suggests, it's not only a matter of trying to bring back Reagan-era conservatism, but to try to get things from going even further Right. Both sides are becoming more radicalized, and honestly I think most moderates are playing defensively right now more concerned with winning primaries than the general election.

The whole identity politics is indeed a good example of the radicalization on both sides. Yes, many Liberals are becoming more violent or accepting of violence. On the flip side, hate crimes are on the rise, and groups like the KKK are suddenly finding that some Republican leaders are not as quick to condemn them as before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacemonger View Post
I think this is already what Republicans are trying to do. I think they assumed that healthcare was one of those issues they mutually agreed on, but it turned out it wasn't. I think there are some factors that will make your suggestions difficult:

-How can tolerance and a willingness to work together be achieved when compromise is seen as a weakness in politics today? Many politicians are elected on campaigns promising to not work with others, and for the most part are living up to that promise.

-How can more far right conservatives be won over when there's easy access to websites and other sources of information that validate rather than challenge their ideas? It's getting only more difficult to show people alternative viewpoints as niche markets continue to rise.

-As the topic suggests, it's not only a matter of trying to bring back Reagan-era conservatism, but to try to get things from going even further Right. Both sides are becoming more radicalized, and honestly I think most moderates are playing defensively right now more concerned with winning primaries than the general election.

The whole identity politics is indeed a good example of the radicalization on both sides. Yes, many Liberals are becoming more violent or accepting of violence. On the flip side, hate crimes are on the rise, and groups like the KKK are suddenly finding that some Republican leaders are not as quick to condemn them as before.
I think compromise needs to be shown as a strength. Right now the Republicans didn't agree on healthcare and this is being shown as a weakness, when I think it's a strength. The natural way of things is to try to put something through congress several times until it's refined and fixed and better than what it was originally. The idea that this makes Republicans bad or it's a loss and a victory for democrats only fuels this sort of "never lose, never compromise" mentality, but they need to rise above that. If and when they were to present a finalized healthcare bill, worth passing, that was better than Obamacare, the Republicans would be vindicated after all these years.

And that would be a victory worth having. And something that's actually achievable since all but the most hardline democrats would argue that it's not a perfect bill, especially given some of the recent price increases across the board.


I think crazy conservatives can be won over by the same mechanisms that allow the proliferation of bad ideas. The best disinfectant is sunlight, to bring the ideas in to light, let them stand on their own merits and then, of course, fail. Then better ideas should be presented through the same channels until the fringe right becomes a minority and breaks off, or dies. Basically, don't fight free speech, use free speech and the internet to combat stupid ideas! We outnumber the racists so, it should be pretty easy to out-do them. The secret is to be louder than them, as well as more intelligent.


I also think that if the left gets less crazy, than people won't see the crazy right as a reasonable alternative them, and they won't hype themselves up as much. So fixing them will help fixing the right as well xD

The polarization is a big part of the problem. But if they right came forwards with humility and humbleness, started saying they will compromise and won't tote the party line no matter what but stick to their principles, that will be in my opinion a show of strength and harken back to the "good old boy" mentality that the Republicans have always tried to exude. Now is the perfect time to show how rational the right can be, and when they stick their hands out to the left to compromise, and they at first bite that hand, it will only make the right look more open for being the one's willing to compromise. If they can step up to the plate and deliver, it would perhaps make them look like the good guys and even like the victims, which would win over a lot of the left and start to cause them to have to change as well. Also bolstering that element of the party. Think if they were the first to compromise during this extreme polarization, to extend an olive branch. To bring this nation back working together instead of being so divided. Now that's a victory that would go down in the history books; if they could pull that off, that would be something neat indeed.

Kansas is a good example of what you're talking about. The crazies ran the state into the ground, and with Brownback supposedly leaving soon, the moderates might be steering the ship once again since they've already more than less taken back the legislature.

Let's hope. Though Kansas was useful as a warning sign to those willing to actually open their eyes and see, it was kind of hard on the people there. Oh well, at least we'll still have Wisconsin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacemonger View Post
Kansas is a good example of what you're talking about. The crazies ran the state into the ground, and with Brownback supposedly leaving soon, the moderates might be steering the ship once again since they've already more than less taken back the legislature.
Well I don't know too much about Kansas but now is the time for moderates to shine. Be a beacon of reason in these crazy times and everyone will flock to you, if you can execute it properly.

Whoever does that left or right will likely end up being the next major candidate for the next election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonBarbarian View Post
Well I don't know too much about Kansas but now is the time for moderates to shine. Be a beacon of reason in these crazy times and everyone will flock to you, if you can execute it properly.

Whoever does that left or right will likely end up being the next major candidate for the next election.
I hope that indeed happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elround4 View Post
I hope that indeed happens.
It'd be cool, right? xP

But only time will tell.







 

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