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Why is point buy so reviled?

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
Everybody seems to have a giant issue with point buy everywhere I go. It's bad enough I've had people turn down games just because point buy was allowed as an option. And none of them will elaborate on why, the few that have say something always have two answers, which are "Munchkins use it!" and "It's too hard.". But the thing is, it's actually not great for munchkins because most point buy systems have diminishing returns built in that force them to dump stats to get their high stats more than if they just rolled dice, and I've never found it to take any longer than rolling dice either, so I don't get it.
If it is, I haven't noticed it. I'll take any PB over random stats any day and random stats can deter me from a game I'm otherwise interested in.

On the other hand, Low PB only encourages min/maxing and only hurts the weaker classes. Monk? Needs high stats to compete. Wizard? Can sink their points into Int and not care too much about anything else. etc.

I have seen people argue against point buy here in the past, but not recently, at least not with any real fervor. Some of that is almost certainly that gaming discussion is a LOT tamer than it used to be, most of the people with really strong opinions they just had to defend against all comers have either been banned or went elsewhere on their own, so there just aren't very many play style arguments any more (this is 100% a good thing, if you were wondering). I have seen the arguments on other sites, so it's not like that style of play has gone away (it's a pretty common component of old school play, which isn't going anywhere soon). I have seen an apparent rise in rolled stat games recently, especially games allowing point buy or standard array as a fallback. But my experience on MW is that point buy is usually the default here.

I have never seen a game where people do rolls correctly anyway. It is usually always the same stuff: people complain that they roll low and want to reroll again.

You might as well just do point buy, if you aren't doing rolls RAW.

I prefer point buy. Everyone is working off of the same starting point. You don't wind up with the BS I have seen where one person "rolls" an insane array with 3 18's and another player has a 13 as their highest.

I would go array for that same reason, but I don't believe that allows players to customize there characters the way they might desire.

I really, really hate arrays. I get the "level playing field" thing, but the lack of customisation really bothers me. Maybe that's just me.

Is point-buy reviled? I've seen people argue in favour of rolling and indeed rolling continues to persist as a method of generating stats despite the fact that it's terrible and makes no sense, but I've only ever seen people refuse to apply for games because it did use rolling and not point buy, not the other way around.

A valid question may be "why is point-buy still not the de-facto standard?" (actually I think Pathfinder published it as the standard, and it does seem that rolling is rarer there - in D&D there is still a hold-over from earlier editions where it was the norm) but in my experience at least I don't think it's reviled.

Arrays are, in a sense, just a kind of point buy (well, not necessarily in a helpful sense, but they are). You can make arrays more flexible by offering more - indeed, I could offer every array that can be bought with a given point buy, and then that would be exactly using a point buy. I'm not sure how much benefit there is though in forcing certain distributions on people unless you really want them to have all high stats and not min/max them or something... honestly it doesn't feel like it makes a massive difference.

The only argument against Point Buying as a method of generating attribute scores that I've ever encountered came from some self-proclaimed "real roleplayers" in my old tabletop group. I liked to call them OG RP's.

These OG RP's claimed that true skill in roleplaying is showcased by playing characters with random, rolled stats. Something about playing a role within boundaries that are not completely within your control.

I'm certainly not disputing their claim - I think it is a valid point-of-view, and their fun is not wrong. I might also be convinced to play in this manner every now and then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreyWulf View Post
The only argument against Point Buying as a method of generating attribute scores that I've ever encountered came from some self-proclaimed "real roleplayers" in my old tabletop group. I liked to call them OG RP's.

These OG RP's claimed that true skill in roleplaying is showcased by playing characters with random, rolled stats. Something about playing a role within boundaries that are not completely within your control.

I'm certainly not disputing their claim - I think it is a valid point-of-view, and their fun is not wrong. I might also be convinced to play in this manner every now and then.

I would argue that these OG RP's should have no concept when coming to the table then. Completely roll everything randomly. race, class, skills, feats. all of it. If that is the true showcase then they should show us all how a real pro does it. ;P

Quote:
Originally Posted by drezdock View Post
I would argue that these OG RP's should have no concept when coming to the table then. Completely roll everything randomly. race, class, skills, feats. all of it. If that is the true showcase then they should show us all how a real pro does it. ;P
Some people aren't far off, in that they really do come to the table with no idea what to play. Then they roll straight down and fill in the rest based off what they got for their ability scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drezdock View Post
I would argue that these OG RP's should have no concept when coming to the table then. Completely roll everything randomly. race, class, skills, feats. all of it. If that is the true showcase then they should show us all how a real pro does it. ;P
Don't get me started! One of them would actually insist on a similar method with every game he joined. Our main DM gave up at some point, and allowed him to create his characters with a random number generator.

Mind you, this was way back in the crunchy D&D 3.5, so he always ended up with a terrible, sub-par PC. To his credit, his OG RP'ing made for some memorable moments. So, I guess there was a method to his madness.







 

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