[Pathfinder] Realistic weapon and armor traits - Myth-Weavers

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[Pathfinder] Realistic weapon and armor traits

   
[Pathfinder] Realistic weapon and armor traits

Hello there. I'm in the process of planning a martial focused adventure for a few friends of my gaming group and 1-2 random souls here at the Weave that would like to join. They have noticeable preference for spellcasters, but have expressed a desire to try martials for a change, but are worried it... to put it short... won't be complicated enough for them to enjoy it. I have decided to use the Spheres of Might ruleset to spice things up a bit. So far, so good.

It will be a gritty low-magic setting and I want to use the opportunity to escape from the usual "I am nothing without my +5 weapon of many keywords" situation in the standard system. In other words I want to make different weapons more suited for different situation to the point where if you know that you will be fighting unarmored opponents from horseback - you put aside your +1 morning star and pick a mundane scimitar.

I want the longsword to be a noticeably more defensive weapon than a battle axe and a halberd or pick to be more convenient weapons against heavy armored opponent than a rapier.

Is there some 3rd party rule set that achieves this? It will probably be too needlessly complicated for a normal tabletop play, but should work in the context of a play-by-post game.

Some fatigue system to discourage people walking around clad in full plates with battlefield weapons in their hands 24/7 will also help, but I can do without it.

It’s worth noting that the heavier end of full plate tends towards 60 lbs, spread out over the body. Modern combat armor loadouts tend to be an average of 63 lbs, all loaded on the back (compressed discs and bad knees, huzzah!), and is carried on foot all glorious day. So it’s very feasible for them to wear full plate all day.

The game isn't really designed around that. At that point you're better off finding a better game system for what you want. I mean, you could hack in a lot of house rules about longswords giving a bonus when using combat expertise or taking a full defense action (you should also use the Elephant in the Room Feat Tax rules to make martial's lives easier on that front http://michaeliantorno.com/wp-conten...Pathfinder.pdf). If you can dig up a copy of Unearthed Arcana you could use the Armor as Damage Reduction rules from that book and adapt them for 3.5e.

The old d20 Game of Thrones RPG, if you can find a copy, also had some rules that might work for you, if you want to adapt them. It's totally out of print and the company went out of business because the guy running it didn't pay like... anyone who contracted work out to, apparently, but if you can find a copy it might help yoy.

As Colin says, the mobility of armored knights is more than you'd think, once they were well used to the armor. Theres a number of videos with people wearing full weight/size medieval armor and showing what they can do in them. This for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falon View Post
Hello there. I'm in the process of planning a martial focused adventure for a few friends of my gaming group and 1-2 random souls here at the Weave that would like to join. They have noticeable preference for spellcasters, but have expressed a desire to try martials for a change, but are worried it... to put it short... won't be complicated enough for them to enjoy it. I have decided to use the Spheres of Might ruleset to spice things up a bit. So far, so good.

It will be a gritty low-magic setting and I want to use the opportunity to escape from the usual "I am nothing without my +5 weapon of many keywords" situation in the standard system. In other words I want to make different weapons more suited for different situation to the point where if you know that you will be fighting unarmored opponents from horseback - you put aside your +1 morning star and pick a mundane scimitar.

I want the longsword to be a noticeably more defensive weapon than a battle axe and a halberd or pick to be more convenient weapons against heavy armored opponent than a rapier.

Is there some 3rd party rule set that achieves this? It will probably be too needlessly complicated for a normal tabletop play, but should work in the context of a play-by-post game.

Some fatigue system to discourage people walking around clad in full plates with battlefield weapons in their hands 24/7 will also help, but I can do without it.
I don't think there is such an option for Pathfinder.

A system with Weapon vs Armour tables, like Classic Traveller (or its fantasy clone Adventurer) or the OSR game Spellcraft & Swordplay are a much better bet here. Both would allow you some nice stuff, like disarms, trips and so on, without adding any additional rules, and the attack roll itself is based on different armours being much easier to beat with a different weapon (though your skill still would matter).
They're not even in the same league as Pathfinder, though, at least when it comes to crunch. I mean, divide the PF corebook page number by 4 or 5, and you get one of those games. So if your friends are looking for complicated rules choices*, you're actually better off with Pathfinder!

*As opposed to potentially complicated in-setting choices.

I just remembered this one that I saw in a gaming store once and skimmed over: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Heroes

Iron heroes. It's a variant 3.x D&D ruleset by Monte Cook that's a very, very low-magic sort of combat system. I don't remember if it has the kinds of equipment options you're looking for, but it was centered around very low magic systems.

And 3.x D&D is broadly compatible with Pathfinder 1e, as a general rule, though you may need to hack it a bit.

Pathfinder is definitely not the system for this. Pathfinder is a power fantasy and Sphere of Might makes things even easier in general.

Mythras is basically the king of "realistic combat" to the point where it is long and complicated until you get to use it.

But well, if you really want to go gritty pathfinder, here's my suggestion:

-15 point buy, it would be close to weaker/real humans and npcs if they are made normally...and monsters would outclass you...heavily.
-Die or Save if you take 50 HP damage (the default mass damage rule)
-Wounds Threshold Optional rules from PF Unchained
-Armor as Damage Reduction will probably be better for this type of setting too.
-Use Limited Magic

for the different type of weapons etc...look into making your own weapons/customize weapons which are part of pathfinder, this is something that would take a lot of times and probably not worth it.

Little Red Goblin Games' "Alternate Paths" books for martials have a lot of what you are looking for in their first chapter of alternate rules. I can give you summaries of the rules, if you want to know what they cover.

Many have already given their input, which would've been similar to mine. But here's my 2 copper anyhow.

Low magic campaigns are doable in pathfinder, but not terribly feasible. Automatic Bonus Progress is a good way of covering how much the big 6 are required in a normal game, without the PCs having magic gear, but it does lean itself towards the a high powered game regardless. EL6 can keep your numbers from growing too much, as well.

However, the problem is that PF is designed and intended for a High Fantasy setting. Messing with that too much can break the system, usually against the player's favor. Furthermore, trying to get to a nitty-gritty realism in PF is, frankly, an effort in futility.

Honestly, you would be better suited to search outside of d20 systems. I've heard good things about Mythras and Zweihander for gritty games. The former of which has free rules for!

Well, Mythras doesn't give you many reasons to switch weapons depending on the enemy's armour. But for running a campaign with no magic - it's actually a great system, indeed!

Here is the free variant of the rules, or you could search for Mythras Imperative on Drivethru/RPGNow.

Just remember, numbers kill in Mythras!

I've never heard of Little Red Goblins, so can't comment on that, but I can say that if I wanted to run a d20-ish campaign with only martial classes, I'd use Fantasy Craft without a second thought. I actually call Fantasy Craft "the game that Pathfinder promised to be, but isn't", because it allows you much more customization of the setting and avaialble classes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
It’s worth noting that the heavier end of full plate tends towards 60 lbs, spread out over the body. Modern combat armor loadouts tend to be an average of 63 lbs, all loaded on the back (compressed discs and bad knees, huzzah!), and is carried on foot all glorious day. So it’s very feasible for them to wear full plate all day.
Modern combat armor is closer to 25-30 pounds, depending on your size (as it determines the size of the ceramic plates). The iteration of armor, depending on weather or not its just the plate carrier, or the whole vest, also contribute: the plate carrier is inherently lighter, but there is a strap in the full vest that brings the weight of the vest around your chest and keeps most of it off your back if tightened properly.

If you add in the Assault Pack or other additional equipment, that is where all the weight ends up getting stacked on the back. Its a reason no one wants to be an RTO, as the radios are never light as you wish. The people who suffer the most are the Automatic Riflemen or Machinegunners (LMG/SAW and Medium/GP Machineguns respectively). A friend I served with lost 2 inches off his height from being a machinegunner for nearly 8 years, as it warped his spine.


So, if the vest is properly sized and tightened, it's honestly not that heavy and you can tend to forget its there after a while (until you need to move through smaller spaces). It's the extra gear that sucks.

Source: First Hand Knowledge.







 

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