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A List of Passive Defences?

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Void View Post
Personally I have no issue with the nigh impotent Wizard who can cast any number of reality-reshaping spells and literally adventure from the safety of his own tower. However, I do ask my players who play wizards over level 13 WHY they go adventuring...
This isn't really a hard question, provided the challenges are of the same nature. Doctor Strange's main enemy is Dormammu, not Crossbones after all.

That's why high level wizards adventure. Good aligned wizards deal with threats to the world on their level, evil wizards are the threat to the world on their level and neutral wizards have their own goals that pit them against similar opposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Void View Post
So why is it that people feel the need to have all classes balanced?
They need to be balanced because they claim to be balanced. That's the thing - if Fighters just stopped at L8 or whatever, fine. However a L20 Fighter is meant to be a L20 character, CR 20, whatever you want to call it, just the same as a L20 Wizard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Void View Post
So why is it that people feel the need to have all classes balanced?

[...]

I do make life a little harder for casters through house rules too but that's another topic.
I mean, you evidently feel like that too if you nerf casters. Otherwise, if balance doesn't matter, why do it?

Oh dear, I think we've wandered into a different thread.

Let's see...yes, a lot of defensive options are the province of spellcasters, or can be replicated or substituted-for by spellcasters even when other classes have them as class features.
Yes, the fact that Vancian spellcasters can know basically any spell and prepare which ones they want to use ahead of time grants them a tremendous amount of versatility.
Therefore, as (almost) every defensive measure can be replicated by the right spell, and preparation-casters can pick and choose what spells they can cast each day, yes, casters are superior to martial classes in this area.

Also...I find it strange to state that non-magical classes are bound by the rules of physics and material laws and shouldn't be able to match up to a spellcaster, but at the same time accept the implication that a sufficiently high-level wizard can physically turn theirself from an elf into a dragon solely by waving their hands in a very precise manner and saying very specific words.


Aaaanyway...there's 12 slots for magic items on the body in 3.5; head, eyes, neck, shoulders, arms, hands, torso, waist, feet, plus two rings, and a robe or suit of armor. And also stuff like ioun stones which are slotless.
With that in mind...any recommendations for defensive wear suitable to all classes? Assuming...hmm, a maximum limit of 37,500 GP cost per item (so items up to 75,000 GP, if you craft them yourself)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
They need to be balanced because they claim to be balanced. That's the thing - if Fighters just stopped at L8 or whatever, fine. However a L20 Fighter is meant to be a L20 character, CR 20, whatever you want to call it, just the same as a L20 Wizard.
And if you ignore the claim that they are balanced?

No, Fighters can level to 20 absolutely fine. If they take on a completely martial opponent at level 20 they should win that contest. Especially if they are decked out with fancy weapons and armor. A fighter can do some great things within its skill set. The issue is those who persist with thinking a Fighter should match up with a Wizard at higher levels - they each do their own thing perfectly well and if you're happy being a fighter at high levels, good on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BugMeNot View Post
I mean, you evidently feel like that too if you nerf casters. Otherwise, if balance doesn't matter, why do it?
Actually I slightly restrict casters while giving them other benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithamar View Post
Because he hates magic?
Lol oh shhh you! (I only hate certain magic )


As for the original post, how about gaining types/subtypes to make you immune to specific elements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Void View Post
And if you ignore the claim that they are balanced?
Well sure, but then don't complain if magic works in antimagic fields or peanuts aren't actually nuts. The whole point of levels and challenge ratings is that they put a numerical value on power. Of course it's impossible to do that accurately but it's an inherent assumption of the game that two characters of the same level are of roughly the same power (just as it is that two races with the same level adjustment, if any, are balanced). If Fighters and Wizards are actually of very differing power levels, then it's failed.

What you're describing is not a L20 Fighter taking on a completely martial opponent at L20 - you're describing a L6 Fighter taking on a completely martial opponent. Yeah, they might still win that. They may well be decked out with fancy weapons and armour. They'll probably even be able to compete with L6 Wizards, too. However, they won't be able to compete with L20 Wizards, unsurprisingly.

Point is, if you demand that martial characters are limited to the physically possible, then those characters never reach levels above 6 or so. That's fine. Why not have games where L6 Fighters and L20 Wizards rove around in the same parties? Just don't claim that the Fighter is L20 but then not let him be more powerful than a L6ish character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaday Daydream View Post
With that in mind...any recommendations for defensive wear suitable to all classes? Assuming...hmm, a maximum limit of 37,500 GP cost per item (so items up to 75,000 GP, if you craft them yourself)?
I suggest the Golden Orb of Siluvanede - which reminds me, you can add it (and Elminster's Efflugent Epuration) to your list.

Part of the problem is that past level 8 or so, a "purely martial" creature is probably a lot better at melee combat than your typical Fighter of the same level. Compare a Fighter to an Earth Elemental, for example.

The elemental has defenses that make it very hard for the Fighter to deal with it one-on-one. A wizard, on the other hand, can potentially deal with the elemental with just three seconds of chanting and finger-wiggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaday Daydream View Post
Aaaanyway...there's 12 slots for magic items on the body in 3.5; head, eyes, neck, shoulders, arms, hands, torso, waist, feet, plus two rings, and a robe or suit of armor. And also stuff like ioun stones which are slotless.
With that in mind...any recommendations for defensive wear suitable to all classes? Assuming...hmm, a maximum limit of 37,500 GP cost per item (so items up to 75,000 GP, if you craft them yourself)?
Suitable for all classes does limit things some. I'll focus on slotless items, since you can't really predict what slots will be free for your build, and what will come up in play.

Well, there's the old standby of Dusty Rose Prism Ioun stone. Insight bonus to AC is rare enough that it pretty much stacks with everything.

Stone of good luck is also decent for the luck bonus to saves.

Dancing buckler is also a common choice if you don't feel like using scrolls or wands of Shield.

Potions/scrolls of Barkskin can be handy if you don't want to take up the neck slot. At 10min per caster level it does last a decent length of time. Potions/scrolls of Heroism can also be useful for the +2 morale bonus to saves, though this can be easier to get from friendly spellcasters than Barkskin.

Diamondskin Decanter - DR isn't huge, but opponents wielding adamantine weapons is fairly rare and it's not too expensive.

Stone of alarm to protect the campsite and defend against surprise attacks.

Odd choice maybe, but a campfire bead can be a lifesaver in cold climes, and is pretty dirt cheap once you start getting up towards the double digits levels.

Bead of force. Used on the self it creates a pretty hard to get through bubble of protection. Just remember that you can't dismiss it, and have a way out (teleport) if you need it.

Various Psychoactive skins have a number of defensive properties, and again, don't take up a slot. The skins of Power Dampening and of the Defender are standouts.

Oh and there are shield/armor crystals in the Magic Item Compendium that can give you boosts on the fly.

Those are the ones that I can come up with quickly.







 

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