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Craft checks for magical items.

   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
I've also played dnd games without magic whatsoever. That games wasn't that fun, though. The concept of non-high fantasy is not 'alien' to me. But I cannot quite tell what sort of game you would play in this suggested world of yours. Would you play the adventurers, who are barely above, uh, you know what you said. Or something else?
Okay. Let me sum up what I'm trying to do.

I drop you in a fantasy world. Sandbox game.

And I basically give you one method of "score".

"Make as much money as you can."

Make enough alters to the rules where your immediate reaction is not "Everyone in the party play a mage and abuse fabricate/create wonderous item/mass murder."

So the rules for Item Creation is not actually supposed to be used. Rather, they exist to discourage anyone from making magic items?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inscribed View Post
So the rules for Item Creation is not actually supposed to be used. Rather, they exist to discourage anyone from making magic items?
No it's to make mundane and magical crafting equally legit options to prevent "Stop having fun guys".

A game that is sandbox in nature should not have a method of play that is clearly superior to any other method of play. The whole point of sandbox is experimentation and exploration.

They are equal, I suppose, in that they are both equally shitty. Well, magic items would bring in a little less profit, since you have to spend half, rather then a third, and then use Experience as well, to make the item. A lot less profit, I suppose. It might even be better to use straight up Profession to earn your pay, then making magic items.

Of course, if all I was to do was roll dice to see how much money I made that week, I would not even roll that first die. I guess some people might like it...

Fair point. Knock magic items to 1/3 raw with no xp cost too. Make the artificer's craft reverse in gold pieces at 5 times the amount.

Obviously no DM would just let you roll the die for a whole week. What you did nothing else that week? You didn't go to the tavern, or flirt with the cute worker at the mine where you got your iron?

One thing to note is that in your "magic is highly controlled and adventuring is looked down upon" world, magic crafting is already highly nerfed compared to mundane crafting simply by way of how the supply & demand system of such a world would operate. Sure, the magic character could spend part of his soul (XP, if you choose to keep that in) to make a mighty ring of invisibility... but he'd then spend months trying to find someone willing to actually BUY it, since not only is that not nearly as useful to a non-adventurer beyond a criminal (who would not likely want to pay the exorbitant prices unless they were a highly-talented and already rich thief, in which case the mage would have to work on underworld contacts to even get in touch with such a thief), while the mundane crafter would be selling every item he makes, since mundane people have a constant need for mundane items... and the mundane crafter didn't have to imperil his soul/spirit to do so. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedronai View Post
If you want item crafting to be an option available to PCs, then it should not take multiple days to brew basic potions, or multiple years to forge moderately powerful rings.
Wait, why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikul View Post
Wait, why not?
That's my question. I want mundane crafting to be just as available but no one seem to be saying anything about it other than "It sucks".

I hate fictional magic on a general level. I've studied magic for YEARS in real life, and never got anything close to consistent results. Magic feels similar to nepotism to me, sure the mage just made 3000 masterwork swords with a single spell. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned he didn't earn them from that fabricate. It's the same as winning a lottery or inheriting your money. You did no work, and therefore don't deserve it.

And don't tell me any stupid stuff like "But he had to work his way all the way up to level 9!"

If it took a ton more XP for the wizard to reach level 9 than the fighter or marshall, or even the expert I could see that argument. Getting to level 9 as a tier 1 mage, and claiming you're equal to a level 9 complete warrior samurai is the equivalent of a videogame player beating X-com: Enemy Unknown on easy, and claiming they're on the same level as someone who beat it on impossible ironmen mode because you both got the same ending cutscene.

Hmmm maybe that is an option. Giving different XP amounts based on what tier of class you play. By the time the wizard is casting fireball the fighter is 4 levels higher. Would take a lot of math, but I can't be the only one to consider this.

But alas I am getting off topic.

Another reason I can't just make the mundane crafting rules the same as the magic crafting rules is due to the business rules. According to the DMG2 you make your profit check in addition to the money brought in by your weekly check. If a smith is moving 7000 gp worth of swords a week, what the hell is he doing making a net 30 check and only bringing in 25 gp.

It's just easier to nerf one thing, than change a huge number of other things.

Take a look at a lot of the old texts which mentioned making special weapons and such. The old sagas and similar tales, which Tolkein used as some of his source material. The items were forged from scratch and the magic or special properties were embedded as they forged the item. The items were always special and individually produced, not mass produced.

My take on this is that all items are masterwork items (check) with special properties embedded as they are made (check), and should therefore take a minimum length of time equal to the time taken to create the masterwork item. The fact that you are embedding special properties would make it take longer - add the standard item creation time to the masterwork base time. These are special items.

Fabricate could easily make bog-standard items. Just make the appropriate rolls. But masterwork items are something special, and should not be able to be made with fabricate, which is a mass-production spell.




 

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