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Rules for making FATE combat more realistic?

   
What Fate really needs are guidelines for combining conflicts, contests and challenges. I'm pretty miffed that the rules take you out of a contest or a challenge as soon as one side tries to damage the other. Most scenes we enjoy from movies involve something other than each side just trying to take out the other. Often, at least one side is trying to accomplish something under fire, or some participants are working, while others fight. Even 4th Edition D&D made it easy to combine combat with non-combat, even if the rules for it were despised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Centauri View Post
You don't need rules, you just need agreement from your players that things will be "realistic" for whatever that means to your group.
Agreed, but this can be said for any system and for any game. Personally, I find it difficult to find said players, especially through online gaming, given that I don't know any of the people I game with (not in "real life" anyway).

On the other hand, a specific ruleset goes a long way towards establishing the "feel" of a setting or game. People expect adventure and monster-killing with D&D, horror with White Wolf's games, realism with GURPS etc etc. I don't think customizing a system in order to change the "feel" slightly is an inherently flawed idea.

And you are also right about the "rule of cool" not being inherent in FATE, but it is also not actively discouraged either. All I am saying is that I'd like to see unrealistic options in combat discouraged, and realistic ones encouraged. For example, in real life, going against a longsword while only holding a knife will most likely get you killed. I'd like to have a rule for something like that, so that failure is guaranteed under this condition, 9 times out of 10 (without necessarily the need to involve aspects etc).

Clearer now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladim View Post
Agreed, but this can be said for any system and for any game. Personally, I find it difficult to find said players, especially through online gaming, given that I don't know any of the people I game with (not in "real life" anyway).

On the other hand, a specific ruleset goes a long way towards establishing the "feel" of a setting or game. People expect adventure and monster-killing with D&D, horror with White Wolf's games, realism with GURPS etc etc. I don't think customizing a system in order to change the "feel" slightly is an inherently flawed idea.

And you are also right about the "rule of cool" not being inherent in FATE, but it is also not actively discouraged either. All I am saying is that I'd like to see unrealistic options in combat discouraged, and realistic ones encouraged. For example, in real life, going against a longsword while only holding a knife will most likely get you killed. I'd like to have a rule for something like that, so that failure is guaranteed under this condition, 9 times out of 10 (without necessarily the need to involve aspects etc).

Clearer now?
Yes, but now it seems like you ARE trying to force it on people, namely your players.

Also, let's be clear here: you're not looking for realism, you're looking for something that conforms to your own ideas of "reality." Which is exactly what Fate empowers you to do!

You don't need and shouldn't use rules for this. You should talk to your players about your preferences and ask them what they think. If you can get them on the same page, you're all set. If you can't then even if there were rules you'd have problems, because they'd be complaining about those rules not doing what they want.

As the GM, you have the final say in whether an Aspect applies to a given roll. If you want to block people's usage of an aspect, you can. If someone is built around using a knife, they'll have aspects that touch on that. If someone tries to tag "Lethal With A Knife" while up against a longsword, you can say "Nope, can't help you." That's not an approach that I find builds much trust with one's player's, but it's your prerogative.

If using knives isn't part of the character, make it part of the scene. Find a way to place the aspect "Only Holding A Knife" on the character only holding a knife, and that can be invoked and compelled to cause that character problems. "You have 'Only Holding A Knife' and are in combat with someone who has a longsword, so it makes sense that, unfortunately, you can't cause this guy any stress using Fight. Damn your luck. Here's a Fate point."

Also consider this: The rules specifically say that the dice should only be rolled when both failure and success would be interesting. If you wouldn't find a successful swing off a balcony interesting, then there's no roll for it. Either the character gets that it's impossible, or it just fails. Of course, you have to balance what you find interesting with what the players find interesting, so you're really back to just talking to your players and trying to get them on your side.

Finally, is it really the trappings that bother you, or the results? If someone came up with a mundane way to quickly get behind the guy and stab him, would you be okay with that? Or are you trying to set up situations to go a certain way, and finding that even though you've blocked all the mundane routes, people keep doing crazy stuff to get around you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Centauri View Post
Yes, but now it seems like you ARE trying to force it on people, namely your players.
That is correct, but I am not really forcing anyone to apply or play in said game, should it ever actually happen.

I think I get your points, but still I don't feel GATE combat is realistic enough without some houserules. I am sorry this is a bit confusing to you; I am obviously not doing a great job of explaining it. Either way, can we get back to the original topic?




 

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