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Pbp and Initiative

   
Pbp and Initiative

I know this tends to be a bit of a resurrect on another thread but I came up with a system that may be a decent solution to the issue and I was hoping to get some opinions and maybe even some feedback from some experienced 5Ers.

So my proposition is that combat is run as posted and initiative represents a number that a player can use either as a bonus to attack or to damage, decided at the time of posting. The game should be all about the players, so I think I am ok with them getting a substantial bonus to their rolls.

Thoughts? Tweaks? Alternatives?

5e officially has side initiative as an option, it is listed in the GM guide and would be the easiest way to run it on the forums.

So my method of running initiative on PbP, which works out for most systems, just requires more work from the GM and tends to be a little more chaotic for the players. Basically, everyone posts at the same time frame, regardless of their actual initiative. Then the GM arranges their actions in order of initiative and posts the results. Furthermore, for systems that have dodge/defensive checks, I would request the players to post a roll for one of those, just in case (this really helped out when I ran BESM years ago).

The reasoning for this is one part not having anyone really wait on the one player that doesn't post every single day (or just at weird times) and another part reflects the chaotic, hectic nature of battle. Especially since combat rounds are usually 6-seconds long in most systems.

Of course, this requires more bookkeeping by the GM, and occasionally means somebody's attack whiffs at nothing because the baddy is already down, but it allows for an easier flow of posting. Or at least that's how it's worked out for me in the past.


That said, Side Initiative is just easier to work with in a PbP format, so I'd never discount that method.

I roll initiative for everyone, and post the order at the bottom of each my GM postings. I highlight, and note who is up.
init order.PNG

If player doesn't post in a timely manner, I just put them on delay until they do. If they reach the end of the round without posting, I post for them. It seems to move things along a decent pace, plus I don't need spend 3 to 4 days getting people to roll for initiative.

I'm in a few games where players roll initiative, it's usually combined with also stating your starting position. Actually works better than you'd think if everyone is active enough. As a general rule though, I much prefer having the GM roll anything that takes place off turn, including initiative, saving throws, perception checks, etc.

As far as the posted idea, could work but it's very system dependent. Try that in D&D4 and congrats, you just completely broke the system.

Roll once for all enemies.

The sequence goes:

All PCs who beat the baddies regardless of actual roll.

The baddies.

All PCs in any order.

The baddies.

All PCs.

Repeat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viletta Vadim View Post
Roll once for all enemies.

The sequence goes:

All PCs who beat the baddies regardless of actual roll.

The baddies.

All PCs in any order.

The baddies.

All PCs.

Repeat.
This actually gives the initiative-losing PCs a one-round deficit of actions relative to everyone else. Maybe you're okay with that, but otherwise it would need to be altered to:

All PCs who beat the baddies regardless of actual roll.

The baddies.

All PCs who lost regardless of actual roll.

All PCs in any order.

The baddies.

All PCs.

Repeat.

I think you're off there, PigLick. Assume a three person combat, two PC's and one NPC. One PC wins initiative, one fails. PC 1 is at Init 20, NPC 1 at Init 15, PC 2 at Init 10.

Normal initiative is:
20 -> PC 1 Turn
15 -> NPC 1 Turn
10 -> PC 2 Turn

20 -> PC 1 Turn
15 -> NPC 1 Turn
10 -> PC 2 Turn
So, by the end of NPC 1's second round, PC 1 has gotten two turns and PC 2 has gotten one.


Block Initiative
PC 1: Turn
NPC 1 : Turn
PC 1 & PC 2: Turn
NPC 2: Turn
Same outcome, as you can see. PC 1 has acted twice by the time NPC 1's second turn ends, and PC 2 has only acted once. Your formulation would give PC 2 two rounds worth of actions before NPC 1 gets his second turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLastForgot View Post
I think you're off there, PigLick. Assume a three person combat, two PC's and one NPC. One PC wins initiative, one fails. PC 1 is at Init 20, NPC 1 at Init 15, PC 2 at Init 10.

Normal initiative is:
20 -> PC 1 Turn
15 -> NPC 1 Turn
10 -> PC 2 Turn

20 -> PC 1 Turn
15 -> NPC 1 Turn
10 -> PC 2 Turn
So, by the end of NPC 1's second round, PC 1 has gotten two turns and PC 2 has gotten one.


Block Initiative
PC 1: Turn
NPC 1 : Turn
PC 1 & PC 2: Turn
NPC 2: Turn
Same outcome, as you can see. PC 1 has acted twice by the time NPC 1's second turn ends, and PC 2 has only acted once. Your formulation would give PC 2 two rounds worth of actions before NPC 1 gets his second turn.
I see what you're saying, but in your first example (normal init), everyone involved has gotten 2 turns in 2 rounds, as expected. In the second example (block), PC1 and NPC 1 have both taken two actions, whereas PC2 has gotten only 1, despite 2 rounds having passed. That pattern will continue to the Nth round, assuming all rounds after the first end after the NPC's turn.

It's true that PC2 "leapfrogs" in initiative using the way I described (i.e. gets two actions before the NPC gets to act again, as you point out), but if you switch from semi-block (i.e. separating the PCs into initiative winners and losers, with all NPCs together) to block (all PCs go together) as Viletta suggested, you're either going to get a scenario where loser PCs lose an action or the second where loser PCs leapfrog into winners in round 2. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I think the leapfrog is a far better outcome than the loss of a rounds' worth of actions.

Of course you could also just stick with block (or, perhaps "semi-block" would be better), so each round is:
PC winners
NPC
PC losers

PC winners
NPC
PC losers

Which is what I believe many people in fact do (at least I know I've seen it in games and suggested in other topics before). And of course the whole point is moot in any situation where all PCs either win or lose initiative together relative to the NPCs.

PigLick

Quote:
Originally Posted by PigLickJF View Post
I see what you're saying, but in your first example (normal init), everyone involved has gotten 2 turns in 2 rounds, as expected. In the second example (block), PC1 and NPC 1 have both taken two actions, whereas PC2 has gotten only 1, despite 2 rounds having passed. That pattern will continue to the Nth round, assuming all rounds after the first end after the NPC's turn.
You're only getting that result because of where you're drawing the lines regarding rounds--which is arbitrary and has little in-game relevance other than "it's time to back to the start of the cycle." What matters is how many times you act in relation to your allies and enemies. If you win initiative, you wobble back and forth between one more turn and the same number of turns as your enemy, depending on where you are in the round (whether you've just acted or they have). And if you lose initiative, you wobble back and forth between the same number of turns as your enemy and one less--which is exactly how it should be.

Fundamentally, you get just as many actions as you would've in a true Initiative system and in the same order in relation to your enemies, so long as you measure it by the actual course of combat--so saying that the player that loses initiative is short changed is, to my mind, kind of misleading.

Your suggestion would mean, among other things, that the PC would get two full turns of actions all at once before the NPC gets to act again, and that's going to swing the balance of the game wildly. Viletta's formulation only differs from your "semi block" version above in that PC winners and PC losers can act in any order after the first NPC turn.

FWIW, I've seen the GM use Initiative as a DC in this case. Take the average of the enemies' initiative (11 + average mod, say, to account for the average d20 roll being 10.5 and the fact that the PC's always win in a tie) and if you make that DC with your Initiative roll you can act immediately. If you fail, you've gotta wait until after the first set of NPC actions.

One side effect of block initiative is that fights can be swingier. Since the whole NPC crew acts as one (and the whole PC crew) there's more dramatic shifts occurring--everyone's force is concentrated at once. Just keep it in mind, as it can make combat both shorter and deadlier.




 

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