Rise of Skywalker - Page 12 - Myth-Weavers


General Discussion

All-purpose section for discussions that donít clearly belong in any of the other categories.


Rise of Skywalker

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFred View Post
Well yes, if you focus on the least-successful 25% of the new movies, they look less successful than if you look at the two which were almost-record-breaking box-office smash-hits (as compared to all movies of all time).

Of course box office success is irrelevant when discussing whether you actually enjoy something, but when discussing whether you actually enjoy something you have to admit that it's pure subjectivity.
Can we just quit with this now? It's basically trolling.

Being "a Mary Sue" is typified by a number of things, most of which do not apply to Rey (especially not in The Last Jedi, which did a great job as developing her character as everything other than a Mary Sue), but especially by tone which is a lot harder to define and admittedly somewhat subjective, but most definitely not present here.

There is some lazy writing which involves Rey being a bit better than she ought to be in a couple of places for the purposes of moving forward the plot; this is not a reflection upon her character, but the plot itself. I honestly don't feel it's necessary to go blow-by-blow into all the ridiculous "Mary Sue" allegations because they're pretty obviously BS, plus it's already been done to death in the last Star Wars thread (and anyway I have better things to do with my life).

tl;dr, go watch The Phantom Menace; it was worse in pretty much every way than either The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi.
Can you tell WHAT Rey actually struggles with? Anakin struggled against his fall to darkness which he lost. Luke nearly
got killed by a drunk in a bar, got captured by a Wampa , blew off the end of his training and got his hand cut off and falls into a pit at Jabba's Palace. IOW, although he prevailed at the end he had real setbacks. What setbacks did Rey have?


I saw the PM and even with Jar Jar it is way ahead of TLJ. I would go as far to say Rose was even worse than Jar Jar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livingwill View Post
1) Anakin was the Chosen One while Rey is not. That gives you certain perks.
2) Anakin did race in a pod and so has at least some experience in driving real fast.
Ah yes, because being the Chosen One isn't a sign of Sue-ness...

I think Anakin wandered into the darkness more than struggled against it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo View Post
Ah yes, because being the Chosen One isn't a sign of Sue-ness...
Actually it isn't, it explains why you are more powerful. Why is Superman so powerful? He is an alien. Why is Wolverine? He has a very favorable mutation plus a technologically based power. The first is clearly more powerful than Darth Vader but there is a background explanation for it. The same with Anakin. Rey is ridiculously OP with no explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whosit View Post
I think Anakin wandered into the darkness more than struggled against it.
Point, I think I dragged the Clone Wars into my thinking. In that he is much more seen as struggling against it. In any case even for all his power he has setbacks. He almost gets eaten by monsters. He doesn't make it on the Jedi Council and he falls for Palpatine's BS and he fails to save his mother or his wife.

The arguments are:

- Rey is worse than Luke or Anakin,

and

- Rose is worse than Jar-Jar.

I can't say I don't see a pattern developing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livingwill View Post
Actually it isn't, it explains why you are more powerful. Why is Superman so powerful? He is an alien. Why is Wolverine? He has a very favorable mutation plus a technologically based power. The first is clearly more powerful than Darth Vader but there is a background explanation for it. The same with Anakin. Rey is ridiculously OP with no explanation.
Does an explanation bring you joy? If not, then throw it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlinmc View Post
The arguments are:

- Rey is worse than Luke or Anakin,

and

- Rose is worse than Jar-Jar.

I can't say I don't see a pattern developing here.
easy to imply a certain misogynistic point of view, but since the discussion is about the old vs. the new trilogies, that's the main characters we get to discuss.
All criticism goes to Rey, but at least to my knowledge nobody ever had any complaints about co-protagonists such as Leia or Ahsoka, or other characters like Ventress, Padme (in the CW, where she actually does something), senator Chuchi, duchess Satine, Hera, Sabine, Sabine's mother and Bo-Katan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson View Post
Does an explanation bring you joy? If not, then throw it out.
Yes, it does. It makes it internally consistent and has some sort of logic behind it. Of course, Superman, Darth Vader, and Wolverine break all sorts of scientific laws in our universe but it doesn't in theirs. Without that, you have something like the Holdo Maneuver in TLJ which asks way too many questions beginning with "Why didn't anyone do that before?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigredo View Post
easy to imply a certain misogynistic point of view, but since the discussion is about the old vs. the new trilogies, that's the main characters we get to discuss.
All criticism goes to Rey, but at least to my knowledge nobody ever had any complaints about co-protagonists such as Leia or Ahsoka, or other characters like Padme (in the CW, where she actually does something), senator Chuchi, duchess Satine, Hera, Sabine, Sabine's mother and Bo-Katan.
Yep, I don't have any problems with those characters, just Rey and Rose. All those characters have actual flaws and setbacks (Unlike Rey while Rose is just annoying) and I like all of them. Of course, Clone Wars writers have an actual clue on how to tell a story including proper characterization and weaknesses. I would add Mara Jade to that list as well. Of course, Timothy Zahn is a very professional Sci-Fi writer.

In fact, I think by trying to hard to make "strong female characters" they made weak ones. Rey is a Mary Sue who is never challenged, Rose is annoying with no redeeming features, Leia is downgraded to an idiot that doesn't realize trading a half dozen or so bombers is a good deal when taking down a dreadnaught, a woman you promoted as a badass who gets maybe 15 minutes of screen time between both films and gets her ass kicked twice, and a bitchy admiral who doesn't realize morale is important.







 

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