Rise of Skywalker - Page 6 - Myth-Weavers


General Discussion

All-purpose section for discussions that don’t clearly belong in any of the other categories.


Rise of Skywalker

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmend View Post
Oh ok that's odd ... Any reason for it? or just because it wasn't Disney's stuff?
40 years of obscure canon is a lot to sift through, and there is a popular and not altogether incorrect idea that MUCH of the EU is pure drek, although there are a certain number of diamonds in the rough.

I initially supported them wiping the slate clean to start anew, but I think what they did with the franchise is terrible, and would much rather treat Heir to the Empire as the canon sequel to Episode VI than anything Disney has come up with to replace it. There's also some weird stuff that annoys me like removing fan favorite characters and replacing them with half-baked expies. (You can NOT convince me that Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor weren't Jan Ors and Kyle Katarn at some early stage of Rogue One's development)

It's really not odd. You're taking over a movie franchise, only everyone and their dog has written a book or a comic or a bit of a video game set in that universe - do you want to admit that all of those things "actually happened" within your universe? Hell no. It's like writing fanfiction for someone else's universe, only the someone else's stuff was the fanfiction. Someone mentioned the MCU before - Marvel didn't do this either. Yeah, they get their superheroes from the comics but the films are all remakes of those stories; the "shared universe" doesn't extend to them (one reason why DC is so bad, IMO).

It's also kind of irrelevant to the movies as a whole. Sure, you might be put out that someone is somehow insulting those paperbacks you read as a kid, but honestly most people probably didn't even know that those existed.

I’m curious: are the DC comics being treated as in continuity with the films in anything beyond a very vague hand-wavy “Since we have a lot of alternate universes anyway, let’s just say that these are alternate universes” sort of way? That is, in any way that actually restricts the content of the films? (Or do you mean that the films are too dependent on Geoff Johns’s specific ideas about how these characters should be portrayed, which he first implemented in the comics?)

But as for Star Wars, yes, there is no conceivable way that a sane studio executive would have looked at that colossal mass of non-film material and say, “We’re going to keep all that for our new films.” Very different audiences: it takes a very hardcore fan to control the details of the whole spectrum of novels, comics, and games, and that’s far too much of a niche audience for a massive blockbuster film to serve. At most, you can imagine a sort of wink at the camera, where the official word was “You can think of it as canon if you like unless we specifically contradict it.”

Me, I’ve thought of running a game on MW in which the only thing that would be officially canon would be the first film. Like WEG’s default setting, but turned up a little so that the players could not assume that anything that was established after that counted as fact. Players could create backstories for their characters in which the Clone Wars could be anything the hell they liked, as long as it felt within the spirit of Star Wars.

Even if Disney wanted to follow EU canon, the simple fact remains: the actors who portrayed the original characters are much too old to play younger versions in these stories. And who wouldn't want to use the original iconic actors to portray the original iconic characters in their newly acquired franchise? But since Lucas (very likely) had strictly forbade any reboots in the contracts, this was their next best choice. Give them a proper closure, and set things up for their future storylines and canon.

Do I like it? Not at all, but I understand why they did. I loved Rogue One, and I think Clone Wars and Rebels were the best things to come out of Disney to date. I found Solo was very enjoyable, though a little hard to swallow at times. But Last Jedi was awful. I mean, it was so bad I have yet to finish watching it through on Netflix. Who is Rey's parents? I don't even care enough about her to wonder. They could do so much better than this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voord 99 View Post
I’m curious: are the DC comics being treated as in continuity with the films in anything beyond a very vague hand-wavy “Since we have a lot of alternate universes anyway, let’s just say that these are alternate universes” sort of way? That is, in any way that actually restricts the content of the films? (Or do you mean that the films are too dependent on Geoff Johns’s specific ideas about how these characters should be portrayed, which he first implemented in the comics?)
As far as I'm aware, no - and that's kind of the point. DC basically ignore comic book "canon" when they make films, just the same - they just never made it be a "thing". I actually find that half-baked semi-canon thing jarring and confusing - when I watch something from DC, they invariably mention Batman eventually, at which point I'm "which Batman?"; there have been so many versions, and it's not clear whether this is in the same continuity as any of them. I'd actually prefer it if they could do something fresh, scrapping all the old stuff completely and just using what they need. That's what they've done in the Marvel films, too - nobody says "but this can't happen because Iron Man already met whatever-superhero back in series 2 of this other comic line!" because, essentially, the only things that the films consider real is stuff from the films themselves; if they want to add in a new superhero from a comic they add them, but they write it afresh (and indeed, things like Civil War happened differently in the films to the comics).

When I'm talking about DC, I basically mean I'm sick of them all being to do with Batman or Superman, basically; can we just stop doing "shared universes" for a bit, maybe? But the relevant point here is that no other film producer ever did anything other than what Disney have done with Star Wars, even though they seem to be the only ones getting the stick for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voord 99 View Post
For “a bit bored,” read “very bored.” It already bored me in Return of the Jedi (easily the weakest of the original three for me). But at least in RotJ there’s a certain ring-composition aspect that’s not terrible in a conclusion — it’s a more serious flaw for me in an opening film, which I would have preferred to have communicated more of a sense of new possibilities. Third time was not the charm.
Eh... I mean, I get that, but at least in The Force Awakens you have new characters and there are enough action scenes with flash special effects that it's kind of enjoyable, even though the plot is uninspired. Personally, I'd much rather they'd come up with something more interesting (as they did in The Last Jedi) but I don't really blame them - they're rekindling a franchise which had been on hold for years, they're living off nostalgia quite a bit, and they already had people decrying them for whatever reasons; they no doubt wanted to give people something they knew that they would like. Can you imagine how upset those hardcore fans would have been if they'd done something which wasn't exactly like A New Hope? People were already up in arms because there weren't enough lawful good white male main characters in it, because apparently that's a problem.

Also, it's been a lot of years since A New Hope came out. Even as someone who rarely re-reads books or re-watches films, I don't really mind seeing the same thing again if it's nearly 40 years later.

I have been amazed at how poorly handled, planned and thought-out the New Trilogy has been. Kennedy, Abrams and Johnson were handed a pop cultural titan whose movies were social events. Yet in just 4 films they're now bombing at the box office, half the fanbase hates them and the word "fatigue" has been attached to the franchise while the MCU is 20 movies in and is gearing up for the pop cultural event of the year, alongside GoT Season 8, with Endgame. I mean, 10 years ago the idea of a Star Wars movie losing money at the box office was unthinkable, but today it's a reality.

For me, personally, watching The Last Jedi felt like taking my beloved pet of 10 years to the vet to get put down. At this point salvaging the New Trilogy would take a miracle of biblical proportions, and the current Powers that Be have demonstrated no such divinity.

Making Rey a relation to Palpatine would be a cool little twist, but by this stage what's the point? This New Trilogy was crippled with TLJ and it's been limping on ever since. My current hope is that they get this over with and we get another trilogy in 10 years time that's made by people who actually love the franchise and can generate the magic and endearing adventure that made the original trilogy so beloved. I hold an unpopular opinion that I think JJ Abrams is actually well-suited to direct a Star Wars movie, because, to quote RLM, he deals in visuals and emotion and knows how to craft an exciting action sequence. If he was given a good trio of scripts for a new trilogy and he stuck with directing, I'd be hopeful. But as it is? I can't believe it's gotten to the point that a new Star Wars movie is coming out, and I don't care.

There is a lot of bad in the EU and some stuffs that are okay. Honestly, wiping the EU or at least not make it canon, was the best idea. People can still enjoy their EU stories...not like they are gone. It is just not part of the canon storyline.

Every time I see someone say Star Wars is bombing at the box office, I know they are so far disconnected from reality that there is no point in continuing the discussion. Unpopular with some segments of the fandom? Sure. Not well received by some reviewers? What else is new? Less critically lauded than some people expected? Yeah, so? You personally didn't like it? Tastes differ. Didn't perform quite as well as some gushing idiot thought it should? Yes, that has happened. But bombing? Every movie should bomb like that.

I've seen people seriously predicting empty theaters by the end of the first week, which is so hilariously out of touch with how the movie market works as to make you wonder what world they live in.

All I know was The Last Jedi was my last Jedi. It likely wont be on anything other than disneys streaming service which Im not interested in.








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